As a waitress (among other jobs) I wanted to respond to the thread about waiting on Mormon families. Alas, the thread was closed. I saw that some clarification was needed, so my apologies for the off-topicness of this thread. Also for the cussing, because we all know I enjoy doing some cussing.

First of all, MOST servers don't give a shit how long you stick around provided you aren't keeping others from getting a seat. If we are dead? No problem. So long as you don't mind me grabbing my 20 minute break while we aren't busy. I will get someone to keep an eye on your food and drinks, promise. : p

MOST servers don't care what you order, provided you don't get snippy when we don't have the item you want. Even then, everyone has shitty days and I can usually shrug it off.

and MOST servers don't care how you choose to split your meal, provided you tip according to the service you received.

I get really pissed off when servers go about making demands on their paying customers. Come on now, it's not a personal insult if table E3 doesn't order the cheesecake or asks for water to drink. For fuck's sake, if you make a living relying upon nothing but your interpersonal skills and the appreciation of your customer then you don't get to make petty demands.

Serving is hard work, i've worked in retail, slaughterhouses, with the disabled...tons of stuff. Waitressing is hard. But if you hustle your ass and make someone's evening out enjoyable you can make some serious cash. Plus i've made some good pals with the farmers who come in for coffee every morning.

For the record though, the OP had one thing right. Mormons are overwhelmingly poor tippers. I can certainly vouch for that. Being in the "missionary field" most of the servers I work with know little to nothing about Mormons...but they sure as heck know to call in sick or plan their vacation around the dates that the Nauvoo pageant is in full swing.

Anyway, I just don't want people thinking their server is out to poison their pasta every time they go out to eat. It's honestly not like that for most of us.

%15 of the total is the least you should tip a waiter/waitress. Extra if you asked for special favours or the service was awesome and you want to express that via $$.

Also, just cause youre being served, that doesnt make you royalty: be a human being and say please/thank-you. Your server will appreciate it and probably make sure you are served well in return. Its just principle.

I've never worked as a waitress but don't worry, I get your point. And I always try and tip between 15-20%, sometimes even if service is a bit off, as I know everyone has bad days.

I've been a server at a couple of restaurants and served alcohol at an amphitheater. I don't know if this has any correlation with Mormons tipping poorly, but one odd thing we always noticed at the amphitheater was that the more conservative the crowd (it depended on who was performing), the worse the tips. With a crowd that showed up in suits and ties, even when the women were wearing furs and dripping with expensive jewelry, it was not uncommon for us get tipped 25 or 50 cents on a $20-$30 drink tab. But bring in the metalheads or a biker crowd, and I'd often get well over 25% much of the time. And usually at least once a night I'd get a $20 tip for a beer or two.

As far as diners who linger at the table for hours after they've paid, the only thing that really bugged me about that was that many times after you've checked on them repeatedly and have been told they won't be wanting anything else, you later walk by to find them scowling at you because they've changed their minds and decided to get some coffee or a desert, and they act like you should have been hovering instead of leaving them alone like they asked you to. Whether the place is busy or dead, it's just a little nagging thing that you have to worry about on top of everything else. So, if you linger a long time and then decide you want something else after all, remember the server is not telepathic and has a lot of other things to do, whether the place is busy or not.

I was taught that "tip" meant "to insure promptness". I still believe that a tip is related to the level of service.

My tipping policy is,

If I get just the expected service, I give the "expected" tip, 15%.

If I get better than expected service, I give more.

If I get less than expected service, I tip less.

To give an example of how I might tip, one day at a nice restaurant, our food was delayed. My BF and I were not really all that concerned about the delay because it was a very busy night and we were expecting the kitchen to be backed up. The waitress came by and apologized for the wait. We assured her that we were OK and understood that they were swamped and that we didn't need anything to placate us.

Well, that was not good enough for her. She went over to the manager and asked him if he could comp part of the meal for us. Well, he recognized us as somewhat regulars, knew that we lived over 50 miles away and thought he would "take care of us". He comped that dinner completely and gave us, gave us desert and a $50 gift certificate to use for our next meal.

We got comped over $100, we tipped the waitress $50 on a bill that would have been about $60. Even tipping her $50, we were still $50 ahead. She took care of us, we took care of her. We continued to ask for her as our waitress as long as she worked there.

As a bonus, the manager knew that we rewarded good service so every time we went after that, we NEVER waited in line. We would walk in and the next available table was ours even if here was an hour wait. The minimum tip we left was around 30%. We were treated as royalty and we rewarded that treatment.

On the other hand, if we have to wait while there are available tables, the food is slow and the staff acts like they don't care, they may bet one penny. A one penny tip is often considered worse than leaving no tip. A one penny tip clearly shows that you didn't forget to tip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 03:41AM by MJ.

MJ, you said "On the other hand, if we have to wait while there are available tables, the food is slow and the staff acts like they don't care, they may bet one penny."

I don't know about all restaurants, but at the place where I worked, the hosts/hostesses were in charge of seating, not the wait staff. And sometimes those open tables you're seeing are for people who made reservations.

As for slow food, that is often not the wait staff's fault. It's one thing if the server forgets to put your order in, but in my experience, half the time slow food happens because of the kitchen getting backed up, which the server has no control over. The server who takes your order sometimes isn't the one who's responsible for delivering your food, either, especially if the place uses a food runner or the server has a "back" (another server who is in charge of delivering the food).

It's completely understandable to tip less if the staff acts like they don't care and I think it's great that you hooked up the waitress who went out of her way for you. The place where I worked actually made it hard to bend over backwards for customers because they had a lot of petty, penny pinching rules and did not make it easy to cater to people with kids. I was pretty happy when my time there was finished, even though I made good money there. Because of my experiences waiting tables, though, I never tip less than 15%, even if the service is poor. I don't believe that any server in their right mind deliberately gives bad service-- not when they make $2.13 an hour. But that's just me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 10:36AM by knotheadusc.

So, I expect that my tip applies to everyone, host and cooks alike.

But if you read ALL of what I wrote and not just go ballistic because of ONE LINE, you will see what I expect from my wait staff, I expect THEM to handle issues with poor service from other aspects of the restaurant. As with the waitress in my story, I EXPECT that if my food is slow coming out of the kitchen, the wait staff will do SOMETHING to acknowledge that there is a problem, and do SOMETHING to rectify the problem, and not just "act as if they do not care". I don't need to have my meal comped, but do SOMETHING to make up for the slow service.

The wait staff is my main interface with the eating establishment, I EXPECT they would act that way. I expect that they would insure I get fast service or they would do SOMETHING to make up for the poor service of other staff members.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 02:13PM by MJ.

Nobody went ballistic, MJ. I just offered a different perspective based on my own experience. You are free to tip or not tip as you see fit, of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 02:20PM by knotheadusc.

Sorry, but you are acting like the type of wait staff that believes they are entitled to a tip even if the service is lousy so long as you can blame someone else.

It is likely that you would get a penny from me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 02:23PM by MJ.

That's fine, because I am permanently retired from waiting tables. :-D

I'm sure, too, MJ. The diners of the world are as delighted that I don't wait tables as I am not to have to do that job anymore. Halleluia!

;-D

Well played :)

Hardly. Very poorly played actually, she singled out ONE line, ignoring context, to rant that I was wrong, not once but TWICE. Poorly played, a low rent truckstop dive diner waitress if I ever saw one.

I think she played well because she just brought out humor into a situation where someone personally attacked her. I don't think she was trying to be rude to you MJ.

No, I was being critical of her waitressing, not HER. She made it clear how she acted as a waitress and I am sure there are many that are relived there is one less waitress that behaves like her.

It's okay MJ. I really don't care. Maybe you should have a snickers bar?

K was repeatedly taking things out of context to find fault with what I had said. She has STOPPED trying to address the LENGTHY CLARIFICATION I gave on waitressing and simply attacked me as being wrong because of ONE F'n line.

I tip more like you than her, I have left a penny before. I have also left $20 on a $30 bill before. I agree that the waiter/waitress is the face of the restaurant and should act accordingly. But you should seriously have a mydol or something...

I made valid points through two posts that were IGNORED in favor of finding A line that could be used to say I was wrong.

Because I don't think that was her intent. I could be wrong, but I like to think the best of people until they show me otherwise.

And I called her on it.

If you have a problem with that, it is YOUR problem.

And thanks for looking for the best in ME, bwhahahahhahahha. Right, you look for the best in people, yeah, right.

MJ this isn't the first post of yours I've read and you seem to be an overly defensive person. I'm sure you've been through things in your life that made you that way and that's fine. My initial post on here was not even near an attack or a problem with you. I merely was giving her props for diffusing a situation with humor. If you were to diffuse a situation with humor I'd give props to you too.

You are not behaving the way you are because of what was said HERE, but because you do not like how I behave.

GOT IT. Nothing I say will change your mind, it is already made up.

You have stopped discussing the point raised in THIS thread and saying that I am wrong because of some perception of yours. REJECTED as vague and not addressing the point.

C'ya.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 02:59PM by MJ.

Not even close MJ. But nice job twisting words. You have just done to me what you have accussed others of doing. Seriously I don't have a problem with you at all. But I don't agree with you on her intent. I do agree with on the tipping. Does it really matter? Probably not.

You are on the wrong side of the issue. I mean seriously, she feels better because I said I would stop responding to her. I'll bet she is your hero, keep whining until the other person gives up, yeah, that's real nice behavior.

fidget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's okay MJ. I really don't care. Maybe you
> should have a snickers bar?


Personally, I think he needs a nap. But what do I know? According to him, I'm just a bad ex-waitress who is too awful to live and has nothing to contribute to this thread. I'm off to play Castleville and drown my sorrows with tequila.

Not snotty ones that blame poor service on the kitchen then still expect a tip.

Then go find a place that has good waitresses and stop complaining about my waitressing skills, which you have never experienced, by the way. ;-D A nice meal out served by a brilliant waitress might do wonders for your disposition and restore your faith in humanity.

But you ignored the bulk of what I said in favor of taking one line out of context to go off on me.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But you ignored the bulk of what I said in favor
> of taking one line out of context to go off on me.


That is not true, MJ. I did not ignore the bulk of what you said and attack you. I may not initially have responded in the way you might have preferred, but I did not attack you in my first couple of posts. My very first post was not an attack at all but a clarification based on my own experiences as a waitress. In fact, I hesitated responding to your post because I figured you would get offended and start an argument. And since I don't care to argue with you, I decided to agree with you instead. Tip or don't tip, it's up to you of course.

I can now see how much you really respected the customers you felt should tip for bad service.

Oh yes, you're right MJ. I was a terrible waitress who just didn't care at all about the poor unfortunate customers who were so unlucky to have to sit in my section. One day I will pay dearly for my poor service, disgusting hygiene, and b!tchy attitude in the special hell reserved for cranky waitstaff, inept bartenders, and disgruntled bussers. Surely I will regret ever setting foot in a restaurant for ANY reason, including dining. I'm just too awful to live!

;-D

You were a bad waitress.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You were a bad waitress.

I've already agreed with you. What more do you want?

Perhaps because agreement was really snotty sarcasm?

Because you keep responding to me. And if you think my responses are snotty sarcasm, perhaps you should take a look at your own responses. I'm rubber, you're glue. Everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

Toodle-oo!

Go ahead, you can quote all sorts of childish sayings, I'll let you have the last word so you can feel so much better about yourself.

lol, no no, that's Belgium

Mormons already tip 10%...

1. On the water thing- I never cared if someone orders it. If they were thirsty, I would leave a pitcher or carafe of water and maybe a monkey dish of lemons. What disgusted me was the people who sucked down their soda and needed refills 8 times in 1 hour. Those people rarely tip from my experience.

2.As long as you're not taking away my income or making me stay later than necessary, I don't care how long people sit at a table.

3.Not ordering dessert or apps ever bothered me. I really hated "suggestive selling" because people who tip well will tip well regardless of the bill. I rarely eat dessert and I don't expect that eating out means YOU MUST eat dessert or apps.

4. I hated waiting tables in UT because Zoobies are awful to serve. They're demanding, rude, sloppy, and you're lucky if you make 10% off the table.

5.Remember, if you're not tipping your server, your more of less forcing them to pay for serving you. Servers are taxed 10% of whatever they sell, regardless of their tips or not. If you don't believe in tipping, stay home and cook for yourself.

6.While I am not one of those servers, don't fuck with the people who serve your food.

I just remembered something from my childhood. An actual discussion about tipping within my extended mormon family.
I think the way they justified shitty tips was because, "If they(waitstaff) wanted to make good money in life, they should have become a doctor, lawyer, or something else well paid." Extending this even further, women waitstaff should definitely be tipped poorly in order to "push" them toward their proper role as a dependant upon their man.

This was easily 30 years ago, and my family are all old school 50s era idolizers. The sexism was rampant, even from woman to woman within their ranks.
I am soooo much the blacksheep...

Ugh... WinksWinks, that is shitty! A lot of the wait staff I worked with were in school to be doing something better paid. I worked with one guy who had a PhD and was an adjunct professor at William and Mary. It really sucks when people make assumptions about the educational levels of servers. I waited tables all through graduate school and people often treated me like I was stupid or less than human. That's why I hope I never have to wait tables again.

I'm glad you're a blacksheep! ;-)

One thing I was going to add in the now closed thread is....my parents are Mormons, but they tip damn well. We can't generalize all mormons into that category.

It was honestly not my intention to rant and rip on people in general who do not tip well. Unfortunately I believe you may have missed my point. The question asked was, 'Why do Mormons tip badly at restaurants?' It was not meant to sound like, 'Why don't people in general tip me better at my job?' I acknowledge your claimed skills in the restaurant/service industry as someone who would never intentionally make a night out miserable for guests, so with that said, I love my job, would never wish anything bad on people who stay longer once their bill is paid, order nothing but water, and skip dessert. My point was to give everybody scenarios on how I can spot Mormon couples/families when they go out to eat, even injected what I believed to be a little humor, which apparently you and a few others did not understand.

I got your humor. :)

This can be a really tough crowd though.
For your first thread, you got lots of replies! Stick around, wade on through the sensitivity a little, as a group posters here can be wary of newcomers because we get trolled from time to time.

It's just as much effort to serve me, no matter what I end up ordering. And if I'm a party of one having only an appetizer during dinner rush, I tip as if I were two people having a big meal and drinks -- which means the tip will often be larger than my bill.

I've worked in restaurants. It sucks.

Why do so many servers wait until your mouth is full of food before asking if you need anything?

Also, there's such a thing as being TOO attentive. If a customer (me) has already told you three times in ten minutes that, yes, everything is fine and, no, nothing more is needed, then BELIEVE him. Just keep an eye out for any attempts to get your attention.

Remember that servers typically have several tables they're keeping an eye on as well as side work to do and they stop to talk to you when they happen to have a free moment. Sometimes that happens when you have food in your mouth. Also, I think a lot of restaurants have a check list of things their servers must do.

For instance, a couple of years ago, I wrote a negative review of my last experience at Outback Steakhouse ( http://www.epinions.com/review/Outback_Steakhouse_44826400/content_499883019908 ). It was pretty obvious to me that our server was going through the motions according to her training. An Outback waitress came along and left me a comment confirming my suspicions. Outback is very much a corporate chain and, as such, wait staff go through training that requires them to approach customers in a certain way. They are encouraged to get you in and out of the restaurant, so they can make more money. That may be why your server keeps asking if you need anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 11:25AM by knotheadusc.

I'm always looking for out-of-the-way (non-Americana) places to eat. Unfortunately, those I frequently travel with are in just as much of a hurry to get in and out as the restaurant is to move us.

One of my last experiences at a major chain we were seated close to the kitchen. Loud clanging of plates and utensils, and cooking machine alarms going off. Jeez. Longing for those quiet European cafe's.....

WHAT is it with wait staff waiting until your mouth is full to ask if you need anything? I've always noticed this. One time, DH and I went to dinner and I saw our waiter lurking by his station watching us, he wasn't obvious about it but I was watching him, anyway, as DH lifted his fork to take a bite our waiter headed our way, so I told DH to stop, so waiter backed off. He didn't come back until he saw DH take his first bite of food. My theory is, the wait staff is waiting until your mouth is full so you won't be able to ask for anything else :-)

Here's a clue... This was a comment left on the review I linked to in my last comment.

from an OB waitress (Reply to this comment)
by cmhsr

Hello! I am a waitress at an Outback Steakhouse and from the looks of it, your server was everything the company trained her to be! Haha. We are told to ALWAYS suggest an alcoholic beverage, recommend upsells (horseradish crumb topping? Like to add stuffed shrimp?), and to ask about dessert halfway through the meal.

Yes, halfway. I too thought that was ridiculous when they emphasized that during training. In fact, I still don't ask about dessert until I see my tables are finished eating or close to it. I have learned through experience that, though it may slow my rotations, I get better tips if I allow people to eat at their own pace. And it also makes my job that much less frantic. But I digress.

About your waitress hovering, we are told to always check back immediately after each course goes out. The time frame is 2 bites to 2 minutes. So she definitely was on top of that! In fact, you'd be amazed at how precisely the dining experience at Outback is laid out. We have target times from everything from greeting customers to turning tables, and trust me, we are pressured from managers to always speed it up. Right now the average goal is 45 minutes.

As someone who has delivered food, I want to address a common misconception. The driver rarely gets any of the three or five dollar delivery fees. Most places give you something like 50 cents or 75 cents out of the delivery fee, but you never get the whole thing. The delivery fee is the companies way of making money off of offering a delivery service. It is not an automatic tip to the driver. I heard numerous times, especially from the elderly, that they were not going to tip me, because I got a delivery fee already. They made a point of telling me this, as I have always been too polite to ask directly for a tip, though I will drop hints like, "how much change did you want back?"

...I always give a generous tip. Sort of a golden rule thing. Tip as you would want to be tipped. Hell, the guy schlepped out to my place to save my lazy @ss the trouble of putting on shoes and going out myself. A few bucks is the least I can do in return.

That is so good to know. I get food delivered a lot at work for the employees on overtime and I always tip 20% and I have always wondered If I was way over tipping because of the already added in fee.

All this talk about tipping got me thinking. How do you handle tipping at buffet restaurants? When I go to a full service restaurant I will tip 15% to 25%. When I go to a buffet restaurant I usually tip 10%. What does everyone else tip?

About once, maybe twice a year I'll have lunch at Nordstroms.

I always wonder what I should tip. In their set up you stand in line and read the menu, give your order to the cashier, go find your own table.

The waitress brings what you ordered from the cashier, leaves you the bill and a piece of chocolate candy. That's it.

I leave 10% in that case, but wonder if i'm handling that one correctly.