A true sign, if you will, of the corrupt and evil nature of Mormonism is that there are whole organizations within Mormonism (like FAIR and FARMS/Maxwell Institute) that are dedicated (with the tacit approval of LDS Church HQ) to rationalizing and apologizing for the Mormon Church's historical, traditional, cultural and doctrinal track record of racism, misogyny, patriarchy, anti-gay hatred, inhumanity, inequality, corporatism, secrecy, unaccountability, authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, anti-individualism, brutality and other wars of atrocity waged against the human mind and body.

If the Mormon Church was actually divinely instituted and guided, it would not need to constantly be churning out excuses for its history and official doctrine--or dishonestly covering up and deliberately misrepresenting its history and official doctrine.

The Mormon Church is, at its heart, sick and dysfunctional. manipulatively using phobias and fantasies to pursue power and to effectuate "unrighteous dominion" over the lives and resources of both individuals and governments. There are nice and sincere (albeit gullible) people within the ranks of Mormon believers but the institution of the Mormon Church itself is rotten to the core.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 08:08PM by steve benson.

Sad but true. Too bad my family is stuck in it... constantly giving their time and money to it. I often imagine the good they could do if they just... <sigh>

Seems the church is getting increasingly bureaucratic which leaves more and more room for corruption and decay...

Steve - In my reading and research I find that criticism was consistent from the beginning, and it sounds much like the same things we are talking about today. For the life of me, I can't figure out how the church managed to prosper. The deception and lies were discovered from the inception of the church.

What's are your thoughts on how it survived those early times?

. . . until one eventually reaches the point of internal confidence and personal awareness to be able to stand up and resist in the name of preserving and protecting one's individual identity, one's unique pathways to happiness and fulfillment, and one's own sense of right and wrong.

In other words, as a self-defense mechanism, initially the impulse is to retreat. But as one grows, gains more experience and becomes more aware of reality, the tendency is to armor up, reload--and fight back.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 07:34PM by steve benson.

If you could identify one thing, or one "A-Ha" moment where there was a tipping point in your belief, what would it be?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 07:32PM by steve benson.

Was this before or after your grandfather started slipping into dementia?

. . . voluntarily resigned my membership in the LDS Church in the fall of 1993. My grandfather died in May of 1994. I had, however, gradually becomed more and more disenchnated with Mormonism during my undergraduate studies at BYU in the late 1970s, which accelerated until age 39, when I finally left the Mormon Church.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2012 01:24AM by steve benson.

...the Church would choose a husband for me, post mortem...who may be alive and married to a woman as alive as him.

CTRringturnsmyfingergreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
>how it survived those early times?

It's helpful to remember that throughout the 1830s and the 1840s
the majority of Mormon converts had not yet "gathered" to the
headquarters, where Joseph Smith held personal sway.

For a recent convert, living several hundred miles away from
Kirtland/Independence/Far West/Nauvoo/Winter Quarters, the
"church" was the local branch, made up mostly of friends,
family and neighbors. Eventually the call would come from
headquarters for that transitory branch to move in the with
rest of "the gathering;" but then some other new bunch of
converts would take their place.

The fully developed aspects of Mormonism only "hit" the vast
majority of members after they had settled in The Valley in
the early 1850s -- and then, they had nowhere to run to, in
order to escape the Mormon rule. They either became true-blue
cultists, or were marginalized to the point of death.

The "ungathered saints," generally enjoyed a religious life
similar to Baptists -- similar to that of the pentecostals
of a future generation. Their ignorance and lack of contact
with the more brutal elements of Mormondom helped sustain
the church in its early years.

UD

Interesting. Everybody has something different, but that's because there's so many ridiculous things to choose from. Thanks.

Steve, why do you always have to be so subtle? Speak your mind, mon!

Even before I studied the false doctrines of Mormonism, I was struck by Mormon on Mormon cruelty. Children are little more than fodder for scheming, ambitious adults.

Every fault in me was a virtue for my father and his ilk. A righteous man in Mormonism can be given no greater gift than a bad son. Then the abusive father becomes the victim in the mormon community. My, poor, long-suffering dad! I hope my ass didn't make his hand too sore.

In the summer of 1964 there was a Mormon boy, just six years old, who was fed up with his primary classes. His teacher taught him that scientists were stupid. The Devil had control over water. The prophet talked to God conversationally. She claimed that there had never been any dinosaurs on the Earth.

Outside the cinderblock church cell, the boy heard cars hissing by. He remembered that there was a city park across the busy street. The next time he was forced to go to primary, the boy slipped across the street, skipping his class.

The park was a good place to spend the hour-and-a-half. There were swings and a slide that rotated you as you slid down and grass and ducks and a creek. There was dappled sunlight falling through the great elms as you chased nervous squirrels.

Now this is about the primary teacher. She wrote a note to the Mormon boy's parents and said she was worried sick. "Donald is very lost," she wrote. I think she was angry with my mother. I don't know what happened to me next, as my mind won't allow access.

there was a hell where people suffered for their sins.

Can't even think of anything to add. Just "Amen."

No praying in a Benson thread, Norma Rae.

j/k

Carry on. ;o)

a) There NO CURE for Stupid.

b) for the marginally gullible, ChurchCo has done as EXCELLENT job of innoculating the Sheeple.
It's a carefully orchestrated smoke & mirrors deal, filled with intimidation & coercion.

They've found & developed all the 'right' buttons to push, that's for sure!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2012 05:13AM by guynoirprivateeye.

mass resignations seems to be the order of the day. sacrament meetings see fewer and fewer attendances. young mormons are unhappy with the leadership and they are leaving in droves. this is real, we hear about it, and know all about it.

The most insidious evil, in my opinion, is the core doctrine of fallen man--that the natural man is an enemy of god. That's tantamount to ignoring thousands of years of finely-tuned evolutionary adjustments which have kept the species alive, to ensure that individuals permit external forces to control their behavior. Once that external force (who intends to victimize the individual and take his/her resources) achieves a state of "contrite spirit" in the individual, that individual has been groomed for an external predator. This behavior/mind control lies at the heart of all cults.

I have tried many times to explain to my TBM husband reasons why his Twoo church is NOT twoo...but he is so brainwashed he won't even listen. He is a smart and educated man, but will not even listen to anything that contradicts his twoo church. I have hope that someday his eyes will be opened. The cult has many members who just believe no matter what.

and amen.
Greenkat

Steve's gonna freak when he sees all these "Amens" in his thread!

Again, j/k. ;o)

<Sorry, can't help myself>

After a long, long, list of impossible claims that, over the years, have been made by the Mormon Church, the LDS Apologists can never say anything more convincing than this:

"Nevertheless, it could still be true IF ..."

It is always a never-ending lists of "ifs". Thousands upon thousands of "if's" and "perhaps's" and "supposes" -- but nothing substantial, ever! The elementary problem is that these apologists have got a monstrous LIE on their hands and they will never be able to admit it: Two plus two will simply never equal five!

So they must always be on the defensive. They must always resort to the statement: "Absence of proof isn't poof of absence." -- a statement that could defend everything from the existence of Green Space Aliens to Winged Monkeys. The one thing that they can NEVER state positively is, "We have proof!"

They can only peer review EACH OTHER. As confidently as they talk to each other (and to the LDS membership), they NEVER assert themselves with any such great confidence to scholars at places like Harvard, or Princeton, or Oxford or ANY of the world's respected Universities!

These apologists never ask WHETHER the church is true, they can only ask why the church HAS to be true. This sad reality ultimately reveals the difference between true scholars -- and institutional sycophants!

The Mormon church cannot be defended.

The Mormon church's true colors are finally showing through. The real motivation of Mormonism is physically evident everywhere: MONEY! It's growing more and more obvious everywhere, and every day. And it's impossible for the church to hide from the media, no matter how hard they try.

In Short Topics, "The Great Mormon Money machine" #392


http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon392.htm

The leadership issues alone are enough to make a sane person question the church.

The secrecy, the lack of morality (much less prophecy), and the arrogance are enough on their own. Standing back after many years of being outside, I see the modern day leadership issues as the most compelling. All religions have doctrine and historical problems.

I wouldn't want to buy shoes made by this corporation, much less a lifestyle.