I was watching an old episode of QI, which never disappoints, and they brought up something amazing. I looked up some more info on it this morning.

Because your ancestry doubles with each generation back (1 of you, 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, etc.), then by the time you got back to around the 12th century you will have over 100 billion direct ancestors, which not only exceeds the number of people alive in the 12th century, but all the people who ever lived.

The only way to account for this mathematically is shared ancestry. In 1999 a statistician named Joseph Chang figured out that the 12th century is as far back as you could go before everyone has the same ancestors, but he didn't take into account geography. A few years later, someone named Douglas Rohde factored in geography and non-random mate choice and pushed that number all the way back to the 3rd century AD. Statistically, everyone who lived (and had children) in the 3rd century AD is a direct ancestor of everyone alive today. However, Chang's number still pretty much works for isolated groups, so, statistically, if you are of European descent, then any European who ever lived during or before the 12th century is your direct ancestor.

The shorthand is, we are all descended from Charlemagne.

I found this fascinating. I had heard of Mitochondrial Eve before, and assumed that meant our common ancestry went back 200,000 years to her, but didn't realize that she was specifically a matriarchal line linking mothers and daughters. Our common ancestry is much more recent when you take into account that all of our mothers have fathers, and vice-versa.

This throws a bit of a wrench into the mormons' Tribes of Israel thing. My patriarchal blessing says I am descended from Ephraim. If he was a real person, then of course I was. So was everyone else on the planet. I am also descended from Menassah, and Judah, and Benjamin, and Asher, and Dan, as is everyone else.

So I guess we really ARE "brothers and sisters". ;)

Looks like we are all the products of incest.

I find that when a stranger addresses me as "Bro" they usually want some money. Now I understand - deadbeat relatives. :)

Since Mitochondrial Eve was in Africa, we're all a little African American

I find this interesting;

http://realhistoryww.com/index.htm

It points out how many races actually started of with dark skin tones and tight curly hair.

I have very curly hair, so I've always wondered about any African heritage in my family. We have Spanish blood, so it's quite possible there is some Northern African DNA there.

The answer to, "When did Jesus start being painted white?" has a simple answer. One of the popes declared all Jesus paintings should be modeled after him. Wish I could remember which one...

My family came from Spain two generations ago. I have curly hair. But we came from the light skin, blue eyed, blonde part. :)

We have roots in that area. I have one blond sibling. :D

You got it! I ended up pale with blue eyes, but the red hair instead of blonde. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2012 05:19PM by fidget.

European royalty. Because of the reasons you explain, it would be far more amazing if you could ever prove you were NOT related to them.

Also of interest is that Nephi bemoans his entire line dying off at the end of the Book of Mormon.

Despite in 4 Nephi where all Lamanites & Nephites live in Nirvana for nearly 300 years. (It strongly implies that they all turned white and all lived together - "there were no Lamanites or -ites of any kids.) It also says that those who became Lamanites later were the wicked ones not the dark skinned ones.

So using a little bit of the same math you use above it is clear that Nephites lineage could not have died off at the end of the Book of Mormon...

Good point BC. Great thread.

Wow- very cool info. And for the one who said "deadbeat relatives" I totally agree.

Oh i loves my QI!! Are you a brit or a fellow American that poaches them on youtube?

That's so interesting. My TBM sister proudly notified me a couple of years ago that she had reserached our geneology and found that she and I were true descendants of Charlemagne.

My oldest sister is one of those TBMs who REALLY believes the earth is six thousand years old and that she can trace our familys lineage back to Adam and Eve... x[ my god. She also believes almost every headline she reads and acts like shes literally fifteen yrs old, so u know, ur average mormon Tbm

I'm going to bump this because now I'm curious about something.

If we're saying that we all pretty much have the same set of ancestors past a certain point, does that make the whole "but Native Americans are Asian" point non-applicable anymore?

It's a mathematical/statistical thing, rather than a science thing. We ALL have the same exact same ancestors if you go back far enough, but people with different ethnicities descent from different regional groups (who all have their own shared ancestry). It's possible, just statistically highly improbable, that I, as someone of European ancestry, do not have any Charlemagne in my direct line.

The 3rd century reference was, again, statistics and math. Because of the number of people alive now, and the number of people alive in the 3rd century, and the number of men versus the number of women, the math says that everyone in the 3rd century is everyone's direct ancestor.

Obviously, though, by the 3rd century humans were already spread out across the globe, sometimes in very isolated pockets - like the Native Americans, who were descended from Asians thousands of years before, but would have had little to no contact with any other groups for a long time. These smaller groups means that their ancestry was more closely related - a smaller pool to choose from.

But, any Native American ancestry that mixed in with European history after Columbus arrived means that anyone with any Native American lineage is descended from ALL Native Americans in about the 3rd century.

thanks for the clarification, judyblue.

That's assuming that tribes intermarried...