When I was tbm, i met this wonderful person. He was to become my best friend although i didn'T know it then. I told him about the gospel of course, and at some point we came to the topic of : god only holds you accountable for breaking the rules when you know them. Now that you have heard the g@ospel, you are held accountible if you reject it.

His reply was: oh thanks! So now i am in a shitload of trouble with your god because you told me about him. Why didn't you just keep your trap shut, and leave me to live my life in ignorent bliss?

And well, he had a point...
So why did i never think of that before?

And now, i have a tbm friend..and she is lovely. She thinks i am very interesting and i know i could put her on the path of truth about the church. But....
Oh there is a but...
She is heavily invested in the church. Allfamily, husband, kids,extended family etc..

If she finds out the truth and leaves...it would likely devastate her family, husband, inlaws...she stands to loose her life as she knows it.. she seems happy in her life...

I know how hard it is to leave and be shunned and the whole struggle...so..

I am taking my best friends advise and i am keeping my trap shut.

It is hard, but i don't want to be the one who ..you know..

Does anybody understand what I mean?

That is hard. Part of me thinks you should leave them alone. The truth is there for people who want to find it. And then I think if the kids having to grow up in a cult. Sigh.

I don't know, if asked I would say why I left TSCC. Otherwise I would probably leave it alone.

The question "would you want to know" is a good one? Also, saying something as simple as you are open to discussing it is good. Aggressively proselyting her is probably not a great approach.

My wife is very much in the spot where she doesn't want to know - in fact I'm quite confident she has a pretty good idea what she would find if she were really willing look at it. I get frustrated with that at times but I just have to try to respect it - the cost really would be very high to her as you describe.

On the other hand, most of us are glad we know. (Except one poster who makes a post every couple weeks pining to go back, nearly everyone here comments about being glad to know the truth.)

Also, some of my thinking is that there is plenty of information available online for anyone who wants to know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 06:43PM by bc.

The major problem I have isn't the belief side of it. I generally try to respect that, regardless of how crazy. Putting my nose in there is a losing proposition, most often.

The problem is that this is also a money-sucking cult. She's probably paying thousands of dollars (or Euros) in tithing, and being more or less extorted to do so with bogus information. It would make me feel like a hypocrite to say, "no, don't do it, because unlike regular MLMs or ponzi schemes, this one is based in religion so it's ok." Because, hey, I think it's worse that they have the nerve to base it in religion.

That's a tightrope, becca. If you want to keep the peace primarily, I'd say don't say anything, but if asked, feel free to pipe up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 07:22PM by flyboy21.

This actually makes me think of the Matrix. After a person is too old, they become hopelessly dependant on the system and would die to defend it. There comes an age when you can no longer free a person's mind.

I believe this is true with a lot of people in TSCC. But there are some that may be emotionally or intellectually prepared to accept the truth. The trick is to know that person well enough to know if they can be shown and accept the truth. If they can't be, best to let the matter alone and let them live out their fantasy. Anything else would be pointless and may only ruin a friendship.

Show her where the tree house is and let it be her decision whether to climb the ladder and her problem if she falls out.

You are only presenting information for consideration. We all become privy constantly to new information. If she wants to stay locked in her cocoon, God himself couldn't get her out.

If you were wandering around in public with your zipper open, would you want someone to tell you?

My situation is I have a counseling practice in which I sometimes see LDS clients. They are referred to me specifically for counseling with PTSD, depression, and related issues. I do not tell them I am ex-Mormon and I don't try to dissuade them from their religious beliefs. I do explore with them beliefs and assumptions that are related to the reasons they are in therapy. Often it is difficulty expressing what they really think and feel because they have to keep up a good image. A couple of LDS clients have told me they are glad they aren't seeing an LDS counselor because they feel pressure to appear a certain way.

Anyway, I don't feel a need to address Mormonism and in my situation it would be unethical for me to do so unless they initiate the conversation without any prompting from me. Even then I would be careful about how I conducted my end of it. I don't feel like it is my business to try to change in their religious beliefs. I can address the problems they bring to me without reference to Mormonism itself.

I know this is a different situation from a friendship and friends don't operate under the same rules, but I thought it might provide some perspective. If members and missionaries initiate conversations about the church with me, I tell them what I think and feel, of course, but I don't usually look for opportunities to do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 08:12PM by robertb.

Makes better sense why you have such insightful posts :)

Thanks. I enjoy your posts, also. :-) I learn a lot from people on this board and have benefited greatly.

Yeah, I always pay extra attention to your posts - you actually have some training and know what you are talking about...

If she seems happy and content (some TBMs just are) I would leave her be. But that doesnt mean you have to hidenyour beliefs, be open and honest and answer her questions.

If she seems upset, depressed, or angry/confused with the church, share some insights with her. If she seems interested, continue sharing. Keeping the info flow slow but steady I think is the best way to introduce somethjng that is so dramatically different form her point of view.

My best friend shared the truth about TSCC with me because she cared about me and saw how unhappy I was. I will never and can never be ungrateful to her for that favour. Though its definatly brought me many hardships, I am SO happy to know the truth and FINALLY have things making sense. My life is completly different but I am really finally confident and sure of myself and my beliefs. Sure Im still learning, but life isnt bleak.

Oh there I've gone and done a giant post. :) Oh well, I hope it helps you, best of luck

Becca, I do understand what you mean. I'm in a similar position with my DH and a dear girlfriend.

When I discovered the truth about TSCC, I was devastated--and I was an adult convert. I can only imagine what the truth would do to these two dear people who are BIC TBM. I don't want that on my head.

DH is computer illiterate, so it's unlikely that he'll research online, but my "anti" books are right in plain sight if ever he feels the urge to read. My girlfriend, well, she IS computer savvy, but I don't think she'll ever research anything beyond "church approved".

With both, though, I do hold my ground about homophobia, racism, and to the degree that I can without bursting their bubbles outright, misogyny (polyandry, polygamy). Sometimes I can see their cog dis in motion, before they put the issue on their shelf.

There's no easy answer to your question, no right or wrong, IMHO. As others have said, if your friend seems happy and productive, don't rock her boat. Some people need their illusions to thrive.

Just my tuppence.

Thanks all. Lovely insights. Thank you.

So far i only react to her mormonism if she comes up with typical mormon stuff. I will tell her: that is a real mormonism...or i will call her out on dogmas. Like when she ccomesup with stuff about licked cupcakes and stuff. I will tell her how damaging that sort of thinking is. But i have also told her that i am not out to critisize her faith.

Its funny because now I live a more mormon lifestyle than ever before! We have 5 kids, i grow my own food, i stockpile,knit, crochet, spin wool,and quilt etc. I am into self sufficienty and such, and she loves all that. Asks me for advice and all. It is really funny actually.

Again, thanks for the insights, i will keep them in mind.

I have a TBM friend I'd love to have that talk with. This person has been in therapy for several years--depression, low self esteem, sexual issues, etc., at least some of the issues (okay, most) are cult related. I've struggled with the same question, fantasizing that the truth would set my friend free, as it has many people here.

But I don't do it, because some of my friend's issues are about not being "worthy" enough to the huge, extended, highly successful TBM family, and I fear that this problem would most likely be made exponentially worse if my friend were to leave TSCC. Then the family would REALLY have something to chew on.

One side of me says the truth might make that problem matter less, but there's a strong need for approval from them that I don't think is going to go away.

So, I keep my trap shut, and will continue to do so unless my friend at some point expresses doubts about TSCC. In that case, watch out.

I have a brother that doesn't like being a Mormon, but does it so that he won't go to hell. If I told him everything, and he left the church, I'm pretty sure that his wife would leave him.

I've told him that I'll leave it alone till his kids are out of the house. That way if it forces a divorce, the kids will be raised. If I were in the same situation as him, I wouldn't want to know yet. Once I knew all that I know, I couldn't go along and pretend. And it would be torture for me to have to for the sake of not losing my kids.

I'll hope that I'm doing him a favor by not giving him the full story.

I have come to the conclusion the problems are in plain sight for those wishing to see them. If my friend was unhappy and opened up to me of unhappiness or discontentment I would likely plant a few seeds. Otherwise I would let her go along and discover it on her own.