Okay friends, it's been a year since I've spoken to my SIL(husband's sister). Husband is pushing for me to forgive her, but I think she went too far. Here's the drama..

We were camping as a group last year. It was in the morning, most of the family was still asleep(they are extremely lazy). TBM MIL started going off on gay marriage, since she started the convo, husband and I decided it was fair game. We kept trying to get her to see some logic and reason, but all she could say over and over was "marriage is between a man and a woman." Husband made a comment about how she has been married six times so who was she to decide(a little harsh).

It became a pointless conversation. So I said if that is all you have to contribute then there is nothing more to say about the matter. So then she starts on us about church. TBM SIL decides to come out of her tent about that time. Basically the conversation gets out of control, MIL and SIL make a comment about husband going off 'the end' when he met me. I tell them they don't know him as well as they think they do(husband did drugs, I've never touched them. Husband drank in high school, I didn't drink at all til after we were married. Who corrupted who?).

SIL started griping about us discussing things this early(it's 10:30 am). I told her that if she didnt want to join or continue the conversation she could leave. She said, "Well, you can go to hell, because that's where you are going anyways!" Bam! I felt like someone punched me in the gut, I passed off the baby I was holding and ran into the woods. I heard husband yelling at her behind me, but I didnt stop. She is lucky I didn't punch her in the face(the thought did cross my mind). Husband caught up to me while I was bawling, I told him I didnt want to be there, I wanted to leave. He agreed that he didnt feel comfortable anymore.

We returned to camp together and without saying anything, we started packing up our stuff. MIL tried to convince us to stay, husband told her, "No we ARE leaving!" The entire time that we were packing up, SIL was over there bitching and griping. She was playing the victim and wouldnt shut up. I told her she should think before she says things. She rolled her eyes and said oh let me work on that for you. I simply said, "you should."

She freaked out, stood up, started walking towards me and yelled, "You're just a stupid bitch that no one wanted in the family anyways!!" Her husband caught her mid-stride, she threw a punch at him. He kept dragging her inside the tent. Everyone came up and told me, I should be the bigger person. This is just how she is. I told them I don't give a shit, she needs to learn its not okay.

So since then I have not spoken to her. I still go to family get togethers, but in my eyes she does not exist. I talk to her husband, play with her kids, but she is a wallflower that I do not see. Heaven knows she's tried. Husband agrees that what she did was very wrong, but he wants things to be normal. Even if I forgive her, things will never be the same.

Am I over-reacting? Am I dragging this out to far? Part of the reason I won't talk to her or look at her, is she makes me sick. Another part is I don't want to say or do something that I'll regret. Any helpful thoughts?

The sad thing is the rest of the family is enabling her behavior by making it not a big deal. She can say anything to anyone and hurt anyone without consequences. That doesn't work with me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 10:14AM by fidget.

fidget Wrote:
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> I still go
> to family get togethers,

Why?

I didn't go at all for the first three months after. November hit and I was forced to go for thanksgiving.

fidget Wrote:
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> I was forced to go for
> thanksgiving.

How?

Husband begged and begged for weeks. So not so much a force as a coerce.

Have your own thanksgiving...

No point being around people who don't LIKE (maybe even hate) you...

and this sounds like my TBM in-laws. They do the crappiest things and then you are just supposed to 'forget about it'. Forgiving is one thing (and you need to do it for your own sanity). Putting yourself in situations where the same may happen again is out of the question.

I'm asking because husband is pushing. He's an exmo too, but he has this whole people pleasing thing.

Your husband has a big, big problem.

IMHO a problem bigger than he can solve on his own.

If you don't have children, I would seriously consider my committment to such a person.

He really is a sweet guy and I'm rubbing off on him in the standing up department. He is only now learning to speak up for himself.

he's insisting that you be around someone who is physically violent.

Life is too short to 1. hold a grudge or 2. interact with miserable people unless absolutely required. I don't think you're holding a grudge, you're just not engaging her at all. I admire your restraint. I'd verbally slice, dice & julienne that broad if I were in your shoes.

She's never apologized for what she said at the campsite, correct? And your husband wants you to forgive *her* douchey behavior?!

I would continue as you are. You attend family functions, are cordial with her husband and kids, you just ignore the ignorant cow. Why change? In the unlikely event she apologizes, you can judge if she is sincere or if she's doing it under pressure from other family members. It's up to you whether to accept that unlikely apology and begin speaking to her again.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Thanks :)

I think that what you're doing is reasonable. I wouldn't do anything more until she sincerely apologizes.

OMFG, I absolutely hear you on this one,

Although it doesn't have to be a TBM inlaw it can just be a total jerk inlaw. I have an inlaw that's exactly the same way and have told my husband he's free to go see him and stay with him but he's not welcome in the house while I'm there.

I will not go to family functions where he's at I will not invite him to family functions that we host.

If his family wants to come they are more than welcome but he is absolutely not welcome anywhere near me. When he calls I don't pick up. He's a wife beater and a child abuser and I refuse to have anything to do with that ambulatory pile of sh*t.

By the way there's absolutely nothing wrong with having personal boundaries that keep you and your family safe!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 10:33AM by breatheagain.

"She freaked out, stood up, started walking towards me and yelled, "You're just a stupid bitch that no one wanted in the family anyways!!" Her husband caught her mid-stride, she threw a punch at him. He kept dragging her inside the tent. Everyone came up and told me, I should be the bigger person. This is just how she is. I told them I don't give a @#$%&, she needs to learn its not okay."

Uh you tried at first but she kept on...

NOW...that SHE (sil) is offended....they want YOU to be the bigger person....

All I gotta say is FVCK them!!!

I've found (for completely different and non religious reasons) that blood is NOT thicker than water...

If "family" is that mean to you, doesn't R-E-S-P-E-C-T you, than it is your CHOICE to associate or NOT associate with any family members...yours or your husband's.




Don't give in..

It's absolutely fair to tell them what your boundaries are and why. It's absolutely fair for you to feel safe.

Being around a spiteful, controlling hateful b*tch would make anyone feel unsafe. She went off on you, not the other way around.

That family needs to understand that accepting and asking you to accept behavior that is violent and destructive is not only wrong but enabling your sil to continue with this type of behavior. That makes them just as guilty as she is of misbehaving.

It's hard and if your husband end up choosing his family over you then you have to ask yourself if he was really ready to commit to a real relationship.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 10:35AM by darksparks.

From Vietnam to callings????

That's quite a leap..

Doesn't anyone near her see that she seriously needs som professional help with her hate & violence issues? She sounds like a dangerous person.

I admire you for keeping your boundaries, that's a very healthy thing to do. I wouldn't want to attend any occasions where a person like that also attends. But I've always avoided conflict, often to my own disadvantage.

I agree she needs some help. I wish she would get some counseling. She used to throw forks at her brothers when she was younger.

I DID notice the part where people told you to overlook her behavior, because "that's just how she is".

Figet, you are a very, very loving person ( andI need to say that up front)....so much so that you still, for your husband's sake, go to family get-togethers with you, so much so that you don't want to talk to her because you are concerned that you might say something to make it even worse or something that you might regret.

But, like you said, things will never be the same.

I think you are doing your best for your, for your husband, and for everyone, treating her like a wallflower, at this point.

I'd like to share, though, that forgiveness cannot be forced. It will come at its own time, in its own way; otherwise, it will be much less empowering, much less effective, and much less peace-inducive. Does that make sense? I am speaking from personal experiences.

But I do think you need to let your husband know that this is the best your can do as of "now"...

That does make sense. Thank you for the insight JL :)

When someone told me I was going to hell, I very calmly stated it's not so bad, the Jews put air conditioning in. The person had no reply to the comment.

Hahahaha

I am vindictive "STICK IT TO HER"!!!

OK fidget a few thoughts for what they are worth.

One thing caught my attention "Heaven knows she's tried." What does that mean? Does that mean she has tried to extend the olive branch and apologize. Does it mean she's tried to pretend it didn't happen and resume a relationship? Has she continued to be snotty? The meaning of that is germane I think.

I don't have definite answers for you but I have a few thoughts.

First, when you marry your husband you marry his whole family. It sucks sometimes, but it's also a reality.

Second, I am a strong strong believer that a spouse is responsible to represent his/her spouse to his/her family. It is your husband's job to stand up for you to his family. If he wants the relationship to move forward it is his job to go to SIL/BIL and make the case for why she owes you a sincere apology. I think this also includes an apology from the rest of the family because by saying nothing they implicitly say they don't want you either - he needs to man up and go to bat for you with his family.

It also needs to be very clear to him that if anything like that every happens again it is his job to step in and defend you and make it very clear that such won't be tolerated. This doesn't always hold true, but in a case like this I think it does.

Third, If she has attempted to extend the olive branch you should probably try to accept it. No it will never be the same. No you will probably never like her ever again. However you can be cordial and avoid making it uncomfortable for everyone. It may feel fake, but it's not - no you don't like her for good reason, but there are certain social graces that are a good idea to extend to everyone even if we dislike them immensely.

Fourth, Ultimately you need to protect yourself. You should never put yourself in a position to be scared or hurt or whatever. This trumps all other concerns. However, if this isn't a real threat it's probably a good idea to "play nice" if you can.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 03:07PM by bc.

I completely understand where you are coming from. "Heaven knows she tried." Means she has tried to pretend like it didnt happen. Just like the rest of the family, sweep it under the rug. Never happened.

I also get what you say about the marrying the whole family. His family is psycho crazy. The one person who was different was his Dad, who died a month after we were married.

The other thing that is hard in this situation is that my relationship with his sister has always been strained. I'm that heathen girl, who never acted or dressed appropriately. The things she said, were things she has obviously thought for a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 03:11PM by fidget.

Yeah the reason it hurt so bad is you KNOW it wasn't a slip of the tongue it was what she really thinks and came out. bc...Smash!

Based on that my thinking would be to be very distant but cordial. Say hi - maybe not even a smile. I wouldn't bother pretending it is back to a real relationship - think of it as someone you do business with but don't like personally. If there is business to do, conduct the business. Kind of like a customer service rep dealing with a customer you loathe.

Unless your husband wants to go to bat and get a sincere apology. If he wants things to change it's his ball not yours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 03:18PM by bc.

One more thought. It probably would have been more than 3 months before I would have returned to events, so good for you.

Fidget, I think that you're handling the situation quite well as is. Your SIL owes you a sincere apology. Until you get one, I wouldn't say a word to her. Tell your husband that once she apologizes, you are willing to be civil to her once again.

If a relative says something inflammatory, I would just say, "Let's not discuss politics (religion, etc.) Tell me about your vacation." (or whatever.) If the relative refuses to cooperate, pretend an interest in something else and walk away.

My mom and I had wildly variant political views. I was willing to discuss politics to a certain degree, but sometimes I had to stop the conversation by saying, "We're going to have to agree to disagree about that." It's a useful statement that you can use over and over again.

When someone tells you that you're going to hell, I would either ignore it or (verbally) give a calm, good-humored, solid hit back, i.e. "Then I'll see you there because you're no angel, now are you?" Another idea is that if someone unleashes a stream of vindictive insults at you, you can respond, "You're looking in a mirror." Because, really, they are.

Your SIL appears to have some serious issues -- far bigger than you can solve.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 03:33PM by summer.

Everyone seems to be pretty much in agreement on this one and I concur. The older I get, the more I realize that people will treat you the way that you allow them to.

What you've done is not allow her to continue with her bad behaviour and that's the right thing to do, in my opinion.

She has let you know what she thinks of you, so why on earth would you want to associate with her? I'm learning to have a little self-respect as I get older too.

I'd bet that so many of us went to church every Sunday, trying to avoid someone that they didn't like, due to some sort of personality clash. It happens in crowds. Even within families.

I think you're handling it very well. She hasn't made a big stink about you avoiding her, so what you're doing seems to be working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You're not punishing him and his entire family by not going to any family events. You're going, but are simply avoiding the one person in the crowd who deserves to be avoided, and who in fact may even be dangerous.

If she ever pulls a stunt like that again, then you'll be perfectly justified in refusing to go to family events. I know a Catholic lady who sends her husband to family events alone because she'd had enough of his sisters and their abuse towards her.

She spends the evening curling up with a good book, or by watching some of her favourite movies and she's free from all the tension it would cause if she went.

Only because it sounds like you haven't been alive long enough to develop some duck feathers.

Your SIL sounds like a typical Molly Mo bitch. She owes you an apology, but I doubt you'll get one.

In the meantime, I suggest deflecting these kinds of comments with humour: "Oh, SIL...you know Mormons don't believe anyone except for the sons of perdtion are going to hell! You're SO funny!" and "Well, at least that's where the party will be." and "As long as I don't have to spend all my time and eternity with you, I'll be ok. "

The last one is for bitchier moments. :)

I'm 23. I have been through a lot in my life and I refuse to let people call me a bitch. That is my 0-60 word. It happened to be my dad's favorite for a few years after his accident.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 03:49PM by fidget.

Honestly, it's one of those words you may have to get over. It won't be the last time you're called a bitch, I assure you. My Sifu was always impressing me how words only have as much power as we give them.

Nevertheless, your SIL sounds incredibly unstable and abusive. I wouldn't want to hang around her either. You can forgive her, but forgiveness does not equal putting up with her bullshit behaviour. That's something your hubby needs to realize.

Ahh, I'm called that probably every working day. lol!

Try to come up with some clever responses, i.e.

"If you're going to swear at me, swear in French. Otherwise you sound uneducated."

"Spell it." (They do.) "Very good. At least you haven't lost your entire mind. Now try, "I'm an asshat."

Etc. Have fun with it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 04:09PM by summer.

Haha summer that is awesome. If it ever happens again, I'll do that.

It just came as such a shock at the time, that I had three things flash through my mind. Punch her, say something awful, or walk away. I tried to pick the bigger person route. Of course when I came back, she wasn't done.

You and your husband are now a separate family. Make your own traditions.

Unilaterally plan your holidays, vacations, weekend excursions, etc...

If you want family members, invite them, otherwise, spend your time with those who you feel comfortable with. ;-{)

she'd probably be a toxic Muslim, Methodist, atheist, agnostic, Anglican, animist, etc.

You are right to keep away from her.

I would continue to stay away from this woman. She is toxic. You are holding her accountable for her behaviour as I hope you do with all adults. When I dog bites, you stay away. She has bitten and you have learned to stay away from her. You need to keep yourself and your family healthy and the best way to do this is stay away from individuals like this. You don't have to have a relationship with her. You don't have to have one with anyone. You are already compromising by being around her. If your husband wants compromise, it can be that he will always stand up to her and protect you if this should happen again. And if he will not do this, and hold her accountable for abhorrent behaviour, you shall continue to do only what you are comfortable. I would highly suggest a toxic in-laws book that I read. It's about mIL and FIL, but it applies to all sorts of people. I am pretty sure it is named Toxic Inlaws if you ever want to look it up. I have no relationship with my MIL and will continue to do so. I do not tolerate adults acting like children. Your SIL needs help, but not from you. Placating to her demands does not make you a better person or help the situation. It shows her that she can get her way by acting like a child. It makes her worse, not better. Keep it up.

I just wanted to quickly thank everyone for their advice before this closes. Thanks :)