I wish I had the guts/courage/iniative to confront these lost young men when I see them shopping on their p-day for food and tell them what a fraud their propagating, but instead I smile at them and continue on my merry way, any sugegestions as to an opening line I could use that's no too confrontational yet get my point across

They would be more than happy to come speak with you in your home. If you seriously want to have a conversation with them that would be the way to do it - not in a confrontation and the checkout stand.

It would probably just be a waste of their time and yours.

"It would probably just be a waste of their time and yours."
Maybe, maybe not. A mission can be a good reality check for these naive young men (and women). You could at least explain why they keep getting doors slammed in their faces.

Missionaries are just spokes in the wheel. They are victims of Mormonism, just like everyone here.

I think bc was just saying it would be more effective if you actually sat down with them in a real discussion at your house instead of some hit n run tactic in the Walmart.

"So, uhhh, either of you two strapping young lads into donkey punching?"

wow...I should try that sometime....NOT!!
THAT AINT RIGHT!!

i HAD TO LOOK THAT ONE UP...sicko!! DO people really punch someone while um....engaged in that activity????

I agree with bc. Get them to your house and talk, but don't mislead them on why they're coming over. For example, don't say you want to learn about the church then when the arrive you lay into them.

I would ask them if they would be interested in discussing some issues you have with the Mormon church. If they choose to go, good for them. If they don't agree to meet with you, then they are likely afraid (possibly too entrenched in keeping the mission rules) to discuss such issues.

If they do meet with you, please be very respectful and do not talk down on them. From personal experience (being on the receiving end), it only makes you dig your heels deeper and refuse to listen intently to your issues.

Good luck, and please post on the board your outcome. I would love to hear how it goes.

+1 to the above.

Having had recent experience in this approach, I recommend it.

Condorstrikes

Point to the Sun and say: The sun gets its energy from Kolob, RIGHT?

I'd tell them I was once a missionary, and a true believing Mormon, before going on to explain that was before I discovered the DNA controversy. I would then go on and tell them I still wanted to believe for a long time after the discovery, but I just couldn't make myself do it anymore because I realized it simply was not true. I then would tell them how I went on to discover a bunch of other problems with church doctrine and Book of Mormon issues.

I agree with Waner, Poor guys are just kids really prob having a hard time of it trying to do what is expected of them. Don't need to make their life any more difficult than it is, but if you really want to help highlight some of the issues an invite to discuss them at your house as Waner suggested is the best way.

I've offered and bought them lunch at some nearby locale. The gist of the conversation is "I was once like you, but I grew out of it." Pleasant enough.

In Salt Lake Valley its easy. Ask them if they already have
(personally own) a house. They will say no. Point towards down town Salt lake city. Ask them which one of the condos in the CCC condo center they think that LDS Inc is going to give them for serving a mission. When they say they are not getting a CCC condo, ask them why not. Then ask them why they are so busy peddling secret handshakes for the MORmON elite who ALready have more $ than they know what to do with when the elders dont even own a place to live. Tell them its time to start thinking of themselves instead of giving their life away to a bunch of thieves.

(and in case you wonder if I have the guts to actually to do this, I guarantee that its already happened)

(and in case you wonder if I have the guts to actually to do this, I guarantee that its already happened)

This sounds like a cool story can you tell us more



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 04:01PM by Demon of Kolob.

Lots of mishies, but I didn't know it was their "p-day." They didn't make any eye contact with this old fart...

Maybe it was the new Saturday's Voyeur t-shirt I was sporting...

"I'm 99.9%. R-U?"

I was in a Wal Mart in noname California a few weeks ago and saw three Elder kid missionaries with gray countenances. I paid for their groceries, handed them a fifty, and told them to treat themselves to a "nice" restaurant such as at the Olive Garden across the parking lot. They promised they would. I remember how dreary my life was peddling religion. Hopefully, I cheered them up.

What's a gray face? What does that even mean?

They looked sad and distresses

As little sympathy as I have for mishies, I sure as shit wouldn't bug them on their only day to chill out (more or less). That seems like a punk move. Their P-day is off limits for confrontation in my opinion, unless they initiate.

I would gladly talk to them while they were "on the clock" so to speak and came to my house. Most of them welcome the distraction in my experience. Some know they can let their guard down a bit when in the presence of us evil apostates. Not like we are gonna run to their Mission President if they see a bit of Sports Center at my house you know?

Type up a letter expressing everything u want them to know. Keep a letter on you at all times. Then, when you run into one, give it to them, say something nice and leave.

Don't have first hand experience with being on a mission. As much I detest LSD inc. I just can't bring myself to making life even more miserable for someone. Since they have never approached me I leave 'em alone.

Don't nobody start nothin' won't be nothin'

I agree that you should be nice to the missionaries. They're all victims of Mormon indoctrination just like I was and just like my family still is. I remember how miserable it was sometimes on my mission when I'd go for days without having an actual conversation with anyone but my companion. However, invite them over to your house at your own risk!!

Once you're in their area book, it takes some serious effort to get yourself back out of it! They WILL keep visiting you until you either move (and don't leave a forwarding address), you get a restraining order, somehow get yourself blacklisted by the mission (you would probably have to completely destroy several missionaries' testimonies), or break into their apartment and steal the page(s) about you out of their area book. Even just being a jerk won't help, since the elders that you were a jerk to will leave in a few months and completely new guys will see your name in the area book and stop by for a visit. They are REALLY bored and even if the entry doesn't look promising at all, some missionary will eventually run out of better things to do and try to contact you again.

They'll talk to anyone, and go to anyone's home. And if you let them in, they will keep coming back. They don't have anything else to do. Most of them won't care if you're confrontational or even rude because: (1) a fair number of them really are true believers; and (2) even those that aren't (and there are a lot of them) get very thick-skinned talking to dozens of perfect strangers every day. A perfect stranger approaching them and saying "it's a fraud" is not likely to leave a lasting impact. They've heard it before.

My personal view is that the number one way to shut down missionaries and kill the missionary program is quit talking to missionaries. Just don't even engage. Don't have them in your home, don't feed them, don't yell at them on the street, don't try to convince them they are wrong, just politely refuse to talk to them about anything. LDS missionaries have been confronted for over a hundred years, and there's still a missionary program. A month of teaching zero discussions worldwide would do more to destroy the missionary program than another hundred years of confrontations.

Zero engagement has been my policy for decades.

Anything else - ANYTHING else - only encourages them.

I haven't seen any in a few years (maybe our part of town has proved unfruitful) but, having been a missionary, I have nothing but sympathy for them.

The last elders I saw were walking along a highway at about noon. I circled back and asked if they'd had lunch. They hadn't, so I pointed to a restaurant a block away and told them to meet me there. I bought lunch and chatted. They asked if I was a member. I told them I used to be, and that I'd served a mission, too. Without getting too deeply into things or being confrontational, I told them why. I was civil about it.

On the other hand, I saw some missionaries trying to accost people who were just trying to enjoy a day in the park. I said, "Hi, elder." He looked surprised and asked if I was a member. I replied, "Not anymore." He launched into his testimony, self-righteously chastising me, blah blah blah. Well, if he was going to be that way, the gloves would come off.

Our un-testimonies have as little effect on them as their testimonies have on us. We only look like blathering jerks. We only reinforce they idea former Mormons are bitter and filled with negativity.

why not offer some kindness, god knows they get little of it anywhere. Be truthful, say,

"Hey, guys, I am an exmormon and I know what kind of life you live. Why don't you come by for dinner and I'll let you get credit for discussing whatever you need to with me, then you can use my computer, phone, basketball hoop, just defrag."

That would be the compassionate approach.


Anagrammy

More like this.

Children get conned into the church by well meaning but disillusioned members. Why not calmly de-convert by disseminating information right back at them by de-converting their children with compassion, logic and reason as they are out on their missions?

The longer I've been out of TSCC, the sadder I feel for them.

SO MISLED! If/when they discover the truth, they will face the pain of huge disillusionment and loss of trust in people around them who were older and supposedly wiser.

For some reason, I've never seen missionaries in my neighborhood which was built 10 years ago. The JWs come by every six months or so. If they came, I'd invite them for dinner but with one rule - NO RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION.

I was a mish in Oz, where every fifth car honked and cursed at me--"f-ing bible bashers!", where I was shot at by a nailgun my first week, where things were thrown at me regularly. The members didn't like us either, because of all the high pressure baptisms from a few years past, leaving each ward with hundreds and hundreds of invisible members on the rolls that made them look bad. We were so grateful for anybody who was just plain decent to us!

One family always talked to us, had us over for dinner, and were willing to engage with us about the church without actually going through the discussion (this was in the 80's where things were supposed to be more structured).

One particular evening that I will never forget: after explaining the plan of salvation, the guy simply asked me, Why would god, who is in charge, set things up that way? Why does this plan need his son to be tortured? Why is life just an endless attempt at not sinning, which we will all fail anyway? What sort of hopeful plan is that?

I was just stunned at how stupid the whole thing seemed to me after that. I can't even remember the lame answers we gave him. We were just silent on the way home, and later chose not to think or talk about it. We kept visiting that family and had many more excellent conversations with them, but eventually we couldn't deny the truth to ourselves: they'd never had any intention of becoming mormon. It took a few more years and other things to eventually propel me out of the morg, but I have no doubt that my eventual escape began with that sincere, kind, and intelligent family.

Even if most mishes now are blowhards, militantly ignorant, asskissers, MLM wannabes, or just dumbos, there are always still a few truly decent people out there who are most likely lost and confused by the ugly corporate reality of being a missionary. I wouldn't understimate the positive impact you can have on these young people. You may be the spark that helps them out.

This is what I would do.....

Pay for their groceries, or some of them anyway. When they look surprized and/ or if they ask about you, tell them you know a little about the mormon church, how hard it is for missionaries, etc...and that you no longer attend. Tell them you would be happy to have a discussion with them some time about your experience in the church, and theirs.

I does a few things.....shows them you are kind and compassionate even if you aren't a TBM, and invites a discussion without feeling threatening.

I suppose in a way its a bit of a reverse TMB tactic.....show them some love, buy them some food, and then tell them your agenda:)