Women you see in USA, Europe, Australia Women who wear Head Scarves, who cover their head, face.....
They feel like they are owned by their spouses, fathers, Brothers by any responsible kin. (In Middle East it's a given).
I grew up in Middle East among those women, I see them here, in West.

Or, they just dont want the wind to mess up their hair...

It can also be used as being mystical. Everything can be used in different ways, thus what can be used as a symbol of ownership, can also be used as symbol of modesty, chastity, mysticism, etc.
Not to mention, as anonymity, safety and blessings from Allah (for instance by not be tempting for men's desires).

or if she was just into looking fantabulously chic.

http://historicalsauces.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/grace-kelly-headscarf.jpg

Beware of projecting stereotypes ...you might just get your d*ck lopped off. LOL!

Okay, if it's a fact, let's see your citations. Where's the proof of this fact?

I think by "fact" he means "really strong opinion"?

My relatives come from Poland. Women there often use scarves to cover their heads and faces from the cold. It's still quite common to see them doing so here in the Eastern US. It's done for purely practical weather means.

On particularly cold, windy winter days in Boston, I'll often do the same to protect my skin. I have a winter coat with a hood, and it's uncomfortable with a hat - but a scarf as a light layer works great against the wind.

I can assure you I do NOT feel owned by my male relatives in any way.

This cartoon is on topic...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QuvHdfzfFmI/Td0xswHkoPI/AAAAAAAAAuw/rZDZTmqjO_8/s1600/maleDominatedCultureBikiniVsBurka.jpg

I am a head-covering christian. I do NOT believe I am "owned" or not responsible for my own life. In fact, my hubby likes me "topless" (i.e. no headcovering) when we are out together.

Reasons I cover: 1) NT states women should have their heads covered when they pray. It also states that we should "pray always." So being covered makes sense to me. (You may start laughing, Atheist!LOL)

2) If I "REALLY" cover I look like a Muslim. This makes other "we don't talk to non-Muslims" Muslims likely to talk to me. I like that. I like being able to explain that they are NOT the only religion that believes in modesty and who revere women. (Yes, they really believe they revere women.)

3) There's no such thing as a "bad hair day."

I find that, in the States, women cover because they WANT to not because they HAVE to. Some of them find freedom in being uncovered, but some find their faith strengthened in covering.

I'll shut up now.

Yea...I mean disrespect to NT, but not to you Docia, If you fail to see how shamelessly sexist is (Paul) that is not society's fault. Apostle Paul's philosophy is sexist and absurd. Thankfully women have freedom to reject it or accept it.

That particular letter is known by biblical scholars as a forgery. In Paul's day women had a much better status in the church, he even mentions a female apostle.

Brefots...

Would you care to cite a source for 'that letter' being a forgery?

Which letter are you referring to? The post you are referring to cited Paul's philosophy, not one of the letters Paul, allegedly, wrote...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2012 11:37PM by mtgrizzly.

I think there is a certain truth in what you are saying. Women who dress in certain clothing, for no other reason then that it was dictated by some man, rather it be their husband, or a dead religious leader, may do so because they feel they are owned.

Excuse me? Where's my proof? Look At Iran the whole Female Gender is under the oppression, you cannot see it unless you live in a cave. I lived in Middle East until I was 22, this was in early seventies, since Islamic extremism took over its gotten even worse. In that time you could see the Prime Ministers wives showing their hair, now they cover cover it too, to adjust oppressive times.
I think women can do alot more there to achieve their freedom but they seem to be helpless.

Yeah, many do. But surely not all of them. Alot of muslim women also do it because they want to hold on to their faith and their culture. And they have also learned all their lives that men cannot control their sexual urges (which unfortunately to a large extent is true, especially in the middle east). Not getting raped sounds pretty rational to me.

You do realize that rape is about power, not sex?

That men don't get excited to the point where they can't control themselves with sexual desire, rape a woman and then become sexually satisfied and go on about their business?

Women have learned all their lives that men cannot control their sexual urges? Especially in the middle east?

I don't know, in 4 years I lived in Saudi, I don't recall ever encountering anyone, male or female, who couldn't control their sexual urges...

I met a lot of power obsessed men and women who did terrible things, but no one who couldn't control their sexual urges.

Neither the hajib or the burqa is religious. The Quran does not require women to wear either, it is entirely cultural.

I feel the same way about wedding rings, but I know women who wear them might not. *shrug*

It does seem like an outdated practice (marriage in general).
But what is OK about the rings IMO is that men wear them too. If my husband doesn’t want to wear a wedding ring, then by golly, I don’t either. I wear whatever rings I want.

I think it needs to be equal in that the man should not expect his wife to wear one if he doesn’t and vice versa.

I always figured wedding rings were primarily about women showing them off to other women.

Look at my ring. I'm worth 8 cows!

2 carats buys a superior trophy wife - most women only get 1/2 or 2/3 carats.

(Been a while since I saw Johny Lingo - not sure if I paralleled the phrasing right.)

So, in other words, you let your husband decide whether you should wear a wedding ring?

If he wears one, you will...

If he doesn't wear one, you won't...

Where does your choice come into this?

I should have said the decision was mutual. His career makes it hard to wear one sometimes and so did mine. Point taken though. I wouldn't NOT wear one according to his direction.

Being a symbol that a wedding ring is, it seems to me that it needs to be understood by both genders exactly what wearing it means to both partners. Ownership? Mutual ownership? Decoration? Gift? I suppose it could have any number of implications and reasons for the decisions made.

Let's just say I wouldn't do it because a holy man or writ said I was supposed to. :-)

Yeah, I like my fingers where they are, too...

Here's what is strange and frustrating to me. The women in male dominated belief systems often insist they are free, in control, and equal.

For example, a Mormon or Catholic woman will act all independent while supporting a male priesthood leadership (allowing the religion to maintain power in the culture).

It's like they don't even see the problem with that. They claim to LIKE it. They don’t see the harm in allowing this to continue. They act like they are thinking for themselves, which might be true, but they allow males to be in charge with no female leadership representation.

Hint: if a man does not need to cover his head when he prays, women should not either.

Why are women so easily convinced that a God needs men to make rules for her that men don't need to follow? Because men told her so.

You can tell when a culture has male dominance: their gods are all male. Wake up women. When you sit your rear on a pew in a church that keeps women down, you are enabling the religion to maintain power to suppress women. It impacts policy on birth control and more.

Sadly, once the women have buy-in to the practices that keep them down, they enforce it on each other. For example, usually the women being circumcised in (insert crazy culture land here) are being circumcised by other women. Mormon women teach their daughters to obey the priesthood.

It goes on with the Bible, Islam, Judaism and everywhere else that women are taught their role is “special” up on a pedestal.

The fact is they are so inept and sexist women choose to follow them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2012 10:48PM by quinlansolo.

"fact"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

My thinking is a little radical, so be it.

Mohammed, Paul.....
They are pathetic and unimaginative. The result is very obvious when you look at the pictures in Riyad, Teheran vs London or Paris.

*Sigh*

Go watch "Princess Bride" and get back to me...

You mean Riyadh and Tehran?

What kind of pictures are you talking about? And why would 'pictures' be indicative of how pathetic and unimaginative Paul or Mohammed were? (Particularly since making an image of Mohammed is forbidden by the Quran...)

You know, I am trying to figure out what your angle is...

My girlfriend goes to an Episcopalian Church. In her church, the worship/church is led by both men and women, (including gays of both sexes)...

Historically, like most churches, the Church of England/Episcopalian church has been a male dominated institution.

So, does that mean that the women who comprise the clergy and the leadership of CofE are selling out?

Could you please name one matriarchal society that has exclusively female gods? What about Hinduism? Hindus believe in millions of female gods. Yet, their culture is still male dominated.

I wouldn't compare the morg to any other mainline religion. It's a cult.

"crazy culture land"? Could you be any more condescending?

Sophocles (Antigone) and Aristophanes (Lysistrata). Then maybe turn it up to a boil with a little Simone de Beauvoir and Sylvia Plath. Then bring it up to now with a bit of Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem.

After that there won't be any turning back of the patriarchal clock. After that, patriarchs will get their clocks cleaned good and quick, LOL!

How can religions repress women and, at the same time, put them up on a pedestal?