Overall, my experience with those still in the fold has been good in the eight years or so since I reached my own conclusions and made my journey out. A physical relocation at around the same time provided a natural break. The Mormons in the town where we live now have never known us as participating members.

My wife and daughter are still on the membership lists. We're all effectively out, so I respect my wife's decision not to resign, especially since we notice very few effects. Apparently, we do have an assigned home teacher, but he's someone who was legitimately a friend before he was even aware of the church connection, and he totally respects our space. A few times each year, we get something in the mail like a birthday card or a newsletter. We don't live behind the Zion Curtain, so Mormonism is something that has truly become incidental with us. We're not confronted with it regularly at all.

Last week, however, my daughter answered the telephone at home and was greeted by the local ward's executive secretary. He said he was calling to schedule a bishop's interview for her in connection with her recent birthday.

This guy and I are going to have a brief conversation within the next few days. My daughter is a minor. For some adult male she doesn't know to call her on the phone and tell her he wants to set up a meeting for her with another adult male she doesn't know is, to use a favorite word from the Mormon vernacular, inappropriate. To use a word that would come to mind for most of the rest of the world, it's creepy. Once again, it's the mentality that the normal rules of social propriety, personal boundaries and common courtesy don't apply when you're on the Lord's errand.

Fortunately, my daughter was smart enough to tell him to talk to her dad. He and/or his boss will get that chance.

Thus spake Mujun.

Wow, that's crazy. They have no idea how creepy that is at face value. Birthday cards from strangers can be kind of creepy too.

You should call Chris Hansen on Dateline's To Catch a Predator and report the guy! ;-)

Glad to hear things are going well with you. We don't get to have you drop in very often nowadays.

Maybe your wife will have second thoughts now about wanting to stay on the membership list(?).

Let us know what you do and how they react. Good for you for teaching your daughter to see red flags.

Aren't there legal issues involved? Since you don't live in Morg infested territory seems like you have some action available to you should you choose to go that way.

Make it very clear to them that they are not to talk to your daughter directly. They talk to you, and only you. If they disregard your instructions, report them to the police.

That's definitely crossing a line.

This guy isn't following the policy I have known in years past. All business with minor children used to need approval of the priesthood authority of the child, i,e, Dad. (Or at least Mom.)

In fact it used to be that a woman couldn't be called to a position without them consulting her husband first, as he was her priesthood authority in the home.

He's either mistaken or else they've changed the policy.

They would call it predatory. For someone to call a minor (male or female) that is unknown to the minor and set up an "interview" should get them arrested, or at the very least a restraining order.

There is no religious exemption for this. Can you imagine what the police would do if your next door neighbor called up and said that your minor daughter needed to come over for an "interview"? Someone from the Mormon church (or any church) should be treated the same way.

Yeah, the only legitimate calls for 'meetings' or 'interviews' for minors from people thst didn't know said minors directly would be from school or for a job.

This minor child has never participated in the local mormon ward. Only the mormons would make a phone call to a minor child assuming interest and authority after many years of no spark of interest from parent or child.

If they knew about it, most people would consider it 'abuse'...

The last time my daughter went to one of those interviews, she reported her sexual abuse as a child from a missionary in the field. We hosted his missionary farewell. MY HEART HURTS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2012 01:47AM by hellonwheels.

Was there any followup on your daughter's report?

Ana

You know what'd be cool, if you can't parade it around in a big way, make sure that you are able to speak to a couple of their supervisors (bishop, stk pres +) just to see how many looks on a bunch of very uncomfortable guys. It should be pretty easy as you take the approach of a consumer/concerned citizen & keep being the squeaky wheel as long as possible

If you can at least do it twice ill be impressed :)

Some potential question brainstorms:

So you're ok with this... No?
But you have been doing it...right?
So this is church approved behavior?
Do most wards do this?
Is there potential of abuse?
How is the child's safety guaranteed...

mabey you should alert the local police to keep an eye on this creep. lets hope this dosen't happen to another kid. very scarey!!

allowing minimal "appropriate" mormon contact sometimes suggests to mormons that they can get away with crossing more extreme boundary lines. They sadly tend to push the limits. They're something like two years olds who haven't yet learned normal socialization values.

I'm glad your daughter was able to handle the situation well and that you, as her father, will follow up with a strong voice to protect her. Pat on the back to each of you!

Please remember when conversing with the "bishop," that he is a completely untrained functionary of a pseudo-religion.


For his own personal growth, his delusions of "authority" require an unambiguous response - one escalated (verbally) as appropriate.

To the OP

Perhaps, when you speak with them it might be worth drawing their attention to the description of 'child grooming'...

Child grooming refers to actions deliberately undertaken with the aim of befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, to lower the child's inhibitions in preparation for sexual activity with the child, or exploitation.

Could you ask the police to pay this guy a little visit and explain to him that his behavior is pushing the limits of appropriate, legal behavior? Tell the police a man you don't know, from a church you haven't attended in a decade and never in this city, called your minor child and tried to get them to meet with another male adult alone in a room at the church. And while you don't want to press charges, you do want the police aware of this man and what he is doing and would appreciate someone telling this man what he is doing could land him in jail if he persists.

Wait... Have patience, this is the ward clerk, right. Get a bigger stink out of it.


This should be taken National somehow, right now, by someone, ASAP...if possible

Any way to stir it up a bit with the bishop and go to news might work.

Sorry, not a Mormon hater, more of a Mormon scheme hater looking to protect kids


Maybe we can come up with ideas as a group that motivates someone else in the news network actually able to pull it off somehow?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2012 12:22PM by smithscars.

This same thing happened to us a year ago. The Exec secretary wanted to set up an interview with my daughter. I told him, "You guys really need to leave us the fuck alone!"

He said, "I'm sorry for bothering you."

I think this sort of Mo behavior is just as pernicious when it is directed towards a minor male as it is when directed towards a minor female. LDS men should not be calling minor males to set up appointments and meetings with LDS leader-type males. After all, they could be bi-sex or gay predators.

I know my son was called for appointments, when age seventeen, by an Exec Sec who was known to be a bisexual man and ex-con violent felon. Nuh Uhh, Mr. Mo.

LDS Inc. has a file that indicates that you have possession
of one of their pre mature developing biological breeding pods. LDS Inc. wants to lend some official LDS INC acknowledgement and cheer to the breeding pod's life,( and WHO wouldn't want that !!!!) AS well, LDS Inc merely wants to be assured that you are treating THEIR developing breeding pod appropriately, with the proper indoctrination about the ultimate purpose of her life as a breeding pod/ aka future MORmON mother. The LDS Inc. files indicate that your performance in this regard may be somewhat sub standard. LDS Inc intends to improve your performance as you are lacking! Your cooperation is expected and demanded.

I had around 500 comments by the end of the first week and most were in support o what I said:


"Zealous LDS schoolchildren alienate non-LDS classmates

My wife, three little girls and I are not LDS and are not interested in joining.

The problem is that at school my children are constantly preached to by other students and singled out as "non-members." Each one of my kids has had the experience of sitting in class while a classmate goes from student to student asking, out loud, if they are LDS.

They have been given missionary tracts while at school. They are constantly invited to church and made to feel bad when they decline.

They have all been told at one time or another, that unless they become Mormon they can't be friends and they won't be going to Heaven. This is hurtful and devastating to a little girl's sense of self-worth.

I realize that LDS children are taught to share their beliefs with others. But at school it is inappropriate and needs to stop.

If your child wants to invite their non-LDS friend to a church activity, they need to talk to you first and then you should ask the parents if it is OK. Anything more than this is hurtful and simply serves to alienate".

Great Job!

Very well written, obviously, 500+ comments mean a lot of thought !!!!

When you describe what happened in writing, and throw in the "adult male" setting up a meeting for a minor with another "adult male" it really does sound creepy and very inappropriate.

However, within the Mormon culture it is very normal to set up interviews with youth from active families directly with the kids. Text messaging is used A LOT in my ward. Active youth know they are interviewed twice a year and so do their parents.

I do agree that after years of inactivity the call requesting an interview should have been to one of the parents.

Not the executive secretary's fault either. He acts on behalf of and at the direction of a Bishop.

I'm here for a reason so I am not defending the TSCC, but this is just a procedural matter being followed. Most wards don't contact inactive youth for annual and semi-annual interviews because they just don't have time to do it. My bet is that your family's name or your daughter's name came up in a meeting...

It is those DAMNED meetings that generate a lot of stupid behavior on the part of active mormons. They have a meeting so they need to talk about something and then BAM someone commits someone else to make a call, pop by, extend an invitation etc.

I liked the comment from someone above who stated to the executive secretary "when are you going to leave us the fuck along?" I guarantee you that executive secretary is thinking the same thing.

DT



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2012 02:07PM by Doubting Thomas.

This person on the phone and the bishop are total strangers to every member of the Mujun household.

I'm an executive secretary. I'm also new in the ward. Probably he just assumed you were active members in the ward. No conspiracy here. Just communicate to them that you found it very inappropriate and Maybe they'll do better at record keeping (probably not though). When the next executive secretary gets called you'll probably get calls again. If you really don't want to be treated like a member than remove your daughters name.

AnonN,

See my post above yours... as a current executive secretary I agree, no conspiracy, just doing what we are told which is following a request that is generated in a ward council, PEC or bishopric meeting.

If I don't know a particular family I always ask who I should ask for and are they active.

DT

Agreed not Mujun's responsibility, but until his wife and daughter resign they will still show up on a list and with new leaders will be targeted in the future by someone trying to "rescue" them.

Mujun might take pity on them and let it go with a stern word or two.

I would not. They'd be hosed and arrested at my house which is in an ajoining stake to the one under discussion.

That type of behavior is inappropriate with any teenage children, not just those that are part of an inactive family, or a family that has resigned.

That's akin to saying Warren Jeff's sexual abuse of minors, and his complicity in the sexual abuse of minors, was ok, because those minors were active members of his little church.

Most of us, especially those that entered the church early in life, were subjected to these types of probing interviews with an adult man (when we were teenagers or younger). And usually, said interviews were sexually explicit in nature. I know they were for me, incredibly uncomfortable, and left me feeling worthless and unloveable.

Think about it for a second: A grown man, in a closed room, interviewing a teenage girl about how she touches herself, what she thinks of when she's doing that, how often she does it, etc. Even taking it to the extreme of telling the young lady that the next time she feels like touching herself, that she needs to call him on the telephone.

Fucking really? Do you really not understand just how fucking sick and disgusting and inappropriate this really is? And no, I don't give a fuck-all if the girl's an active member of the LDS faith or not. It shouldn't matter.

(Or you're just a fishing troll, dangling your worm in the water of discontent, to see what bites.)

...FOLLOWING resignation, I received birthday cards from the RS, a RS manual, and a ward directory with my name on it. I was stunned.

I called the bishop who wanted me to come to his office to "talk" with him. I told him that I would not be sitting down with him. He insisted and I asked him to completely back off and that I wasn't a member anymore. He still insisted and I said, "When I converted to Mormonism, my Lutheran pastor, the one who had confirmed me in that faith, knew of my intentions to join the Mormon faith (from Lutheran friends who knew of my plans) and he didn't call me into his office to discuss the issue. He let me go. I was never bugged by the Lutheran Church for the years I was Mormon because I made the decision as an adult and they let me live my life as my own. In contrast, I haven't been Mormon for over ten years, but I've been continually bothered and contacted by members of your faith. I have Mormon colleagues that I respect and if I have any questions or concerns, I'll contact them. But no one should contact me anymore and please take my name off of the ward directory."

I then placed a "No Solicitation: This includes religious organizations" sign on my door and even the Boy Scouts wouldn't bother me. Since moving to another state, I haven't heard from anyone, in the mail or otherwise. I hope this silence continues.

Good luck, Mujun.