http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54834548-78/tory-church-lds-sorenson.html.csp#disqus_thread

It seems a seventeen year old drowned at a church function of some sort at a state park in southern Utah...Check out some of the amazing comments as the church members try to defend negligence....

That is so horrible. Just awful.

It made me think though. I'm really surprised that the church hasn't started having members sign waivers.

We had to sign a butt-load of waivers to participate in young-mens and scouts in Idaho back in the 90s.

Granted- our ward was notoriously dangerous... so I'm sure they'd been bitten several times before and decided to CYA.

One of our scout masters got crushed by a snow mobile that a scout stole and jumped into camp.

He broke about 100 bones and was out of work for 2 years.

He lumped it in as a "trial of his faith"
But even if he hadn't, he'd signed away any liability before we left.

They do sign waivers, for every activity that is off site.

This is horrible judgment on the leader's part. I would have sued, too. What the hell kind of leader drops a kid in the water, and turns the boat around and goes somewhere else?! Ugh.

That would be so hard to handle.....losing anybody due to negligence.

I will say this: I hope she doesn't settle with the morg. Make them open up their books and get the settlement she deserves.

That's very odd behavior on the part of the youth leader. When I was younger I was a Red Cross certified lifeguard and WSI (Water Safety Instructor.) None of us would have ever dropped a kid off of a boat and left him. We sometimes dropped kids off of a boat, but the boat stayed within feet of the kids, and there was a WSI in the water with the kids and another on the boat. Also, the kids would have to have been known to us as good swimmers (we taught them swimming every day, so we knew.)

This was at a Girl Scout camp, by the way.

Ah yes, the church likes to say how their clergy is unpaid. But I wouldn't say "being called" to a postion is volunteering either. I wonder how much training the supervisor had? I also think stories like this have to be a wakeup call to parents to stop trusting the church.

The comments (apart from yours) are quite frankly shocking.

Most of your adversaries seem to think that anyone who sues TSCC must be wrong and seeking only financial gain, whereas it is a clear-cut case of negligence and would be considered so in almost any country (certainly in France where I live).

The idiots who claim that "as the kid was 17, he was nearly 18" and therefore responsible, the (same) people who try to make out that it was the Mother's fault for not teaching the kid to swim (an allegation based on no evidence whatsoever) or that the Mother is just looking for big bucks....

Yuk

Some people's brains are really filthy on the inside...

Tom in Paris

"Some people's brains are really filthy on the inside..."

Agreed. Some of those comments really prove TSCC is a cult...

A couple of questions that hopefully someone might be able to answer....


Since the term 'master servant' was used in the reasoning of choosing this person as the youth leader, could Tom Monson be subpeonaed to testify? That could be interesting, particualarly if he is having bad day with his rage or dementia issues.


Secondly, and I am familiar with the Utah fascist theocracy enough to know it would not happen there, but could the complaintant, jury, or court demand a financial balance sheet of LDS inc that would be part of the public court transcript, should a case like this happen in another state??

>but could the complaintant, jury, or court demand a financial balance sheet of LDS inc that would be part of the public court transcript, should a case like this happen in another state??

A few years ago in Oregon, the church was sued in a sex abuse case. The plaintiffs successfully obtained a ruling from the judge that required TSCC to provide a financial accounting for the purpose of determining punitive damages. TSCC appealed this all the way to the state Supreme Court which upheld the ruling that they had to release the information. TSCC then immediately settled the original suit (with the settelment sealed).

I'd love a link to that supreme court case, if you have it.

One of my friends is 100% sure that TSCC has transparent finances (granted I kinda baited him to that conclusion), but now he wont back down even though he can't seem to find any of those transparent statements.

The church just built a 5 billion dollar mall. Everyone knows they are loaded. Judgement is not based on how much the church has, but how much the victims family lost. There will be a very large payout soon. Unless the church guilts the family into dropping the suit.

If it does go to trial, there will probably be plenty of opportunities to sue the State as well in Federal court, if it becomes clear they are covering for the church again.

If the plaintiff asks for punitive damages and prevails, they can be awarded on the value of individual - they have to be large enough to prevent the same thing from happening, but not excessively large.

This suit will settle within 3 months...

The s* for brains parents didn't even know their baby/todler was under the water.

My son was something of a hero that day.

Being Mormons, I am sure they had plenty of spares.

Bravo on your son's part. While it is hard being a parent, there is a simple trick to keeping track of kids. Don't have more then you can keep up with.

I am weighing in. I am the guy who mentioned that the church makes seven billion a year in tithing, plus billions from other investments. Can't way to see the flames that starts.

My ex-wife's parents had 10 kids. They almost went down to 9 after accidentally leaving one child at a truck-stop for over an hour. They were on a road trip and stopped to use the restroom. They took off while one of their children was using the toilet.

Family first! Unless you have more children that you care to remember.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2012 01:38PM by Soft Machine.

Reading the article from a parent's point of view, the church leader seems very negligent. I would not have left a teenager alone like that in a lake. Seems like common sense to me!

I just ache for the mother. Sueing the church won't bring her son back--but I'd like to hope it would teach the church a lesson.

As I pointed out in the comments over there, if it were the Baptist or the Catholic Church, none of these people would be defending it.

The church will settle on the courthouse steps. This is what they always do. They never make decisions based on morality, just on the strategy which will cost least.

We saw them do this with sexual abuse cases even when guilt was admitted. Money and avoiding bad publicity.

It's what Jesus taught us was important, right?

Anagrammy

I'm hoping that the mom isn't out for money. If she is, she'll settle for some ungodly sum.

But -

If she isn't out for money, she won't settle, but hopefully take it all the way. Wouldn't TSCC have to open books to show how much they have?

I've heard of several lawsuits that the mormons just settle so that they don't have to open books.

Evil, well-hated cult.

THat happened in an abuse case in Oregon. A judge ruled that the church's books were not protected and could be opened, and very quickly afterward a settlement was reached.

Civil courts don't like to have to hold trials. So, they encourage settlement. Including mandatory settlement conferences, etc...

By the time you get to the courthouse steps, all the discovery has been done. Depending on the case, that might include financial disclosures and/or certain business relationships within the church. Once discovery has been filed with the court, it becomes public record. The court would have to order the discovery sealed and I think the only way they can do that is protect trade secrets and protected intellectual property, etc.

Somehow, I think the church would avoid any chance the discovery will be made public...

WHO OWNED THE BOAT?

It doesn't say in the article. If the boat was borrowed, then the owner is potentially liable for negligent entrustment.

Either way, I will bet there are, at least, two deep pockets here - the boat's insurance and the church. There might be more, too...

The leader who just dropped him off in the water and then drove away is an IDIOT, but it's ultimately the CHURCH that is responsible. They drafted this guy into the position under the guise divine inspiration. He was negligent and uneducated... but I'm sure he thought he was doing a good job in his calling taking the boys to have fun... He should be barred from ever having responsibility for any youths ever again but I'd hate to see him personally sued and lose all his assets, etc when ultimately, I see it's the CHURCH responsible. They called this guy by divine inspiration and also command all parents to make sure their kids are going on the activities etc.

SUE LDS INC.

Most people drown within 10 to 30 feet of shore.
You should never swim alone. Even if you're a good swimmer, always make sure an adult is supervising with no distractions and watching everyone in the area. Children and adults who are not strong swimmers should wear life jackets at all times when they are in the water.

One guy supervising 6 teenagers doesn't seem like a problem until he splits the group, taking some of them boating, leaving some on shore (un-supervised) and one in the water! Of course this guy's at fault. And I would most certainly include him in the law suit, as well as LDS, Inc.

I'm a very strong swimmer and I almost drowned in the Provo River 6 years ago...I can't ever imagine dropping someone off in the middle of a lake/reservoir and taking off. Even if some one is Olympic level in swimming, he or she gets too close to a dam and will be in serious trouble. At the very least, that kid should have had on a life jacket.

That idiot leader and TSCC are responsible for this- Both should know the bare minimum of water safety. TSCC is stupid have leaders in charge that are indifferent to safety. It's not like this is an isolated incident with the youth; Every season someone posts a link to a story of some unprepared leader getting the youth in a hazardous situation.

Even swimmers who do challenges, like the English Channel and the Hudson, will have a manned boat nearby in case of cramps or other issues in the water. These people train for years to swim in these dangerous waters. If a trained athlete has a safety net, why wouldn't a kid need one as well?

Fucking irresponsible jackasses.

They had to pull Diana Nyad out of the water for a variety of reasons on her latest attempt to swim from Cuba to Florida.

If a swimmer like Nyad needs support - a boat - I would think this kid would, at least, need someone paying attention to him...

Some of those comments are vomit-worthy. Uber-TBMs make me sick! If this happened at a non-church function and boy just happened to be Mormon, that's one thing, but that's obviously not the case. But I guess to most TBMs, the 'church' and it's image comes first before basic safety.