otherlives Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That was great--wish they could have talked > longer. "Uh...You should do your research" to > Richard Dawkins...LOL
Oh dear. He just gave all the programmed answers. Looks like poor Brandon is the one who needs to do his research.
Its always going to be a spectacular moment when a kid who focused on playing a guitar and dancing super good gets a chance to meet an intelligent lifetime scholar like Dawkins. It was truly a show of elitist-brainwashed-ignorance when he told Dawkins to get his facts straight and do some research.
I wish the host of the show hadn't ushered him off to do his performance as the court jester so quickly.....it seemed as if it was about to get really good if he had just let Dawkins continue to challenge his small view of reality.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 11:18PM by upsidedown.
flanders Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But isn't this the same Brandon Flowers who > voluntarily lent his name, persona, and testimony > in an "I'm a Mormon" production? He became fair > game after that.
Ah! I had no idea about that (I live in Canada and those ads don't exist where I live). I thought Brandon Flowers was just a musician who happened to be mormon.
to save his ass. I mean, come on... why did he have to go "prepare" for a performance that was 15-20 minutes away? I call BALDERDASH! His "bandmates" (no doubt his agent) didn't want to watch him get eviscerated by Dawkins on a big tv show, and put a quick stop to it.
Definitely had his as$ handed to him. I have met Brandon Flowers and attended church with him. A spectacularly nice guy. Returned to church when he got married--his wife took the discussions after his mom encouraged her. Both great people, but I wonder if he knew he was going to get thrown to the wolves there. The Scandinavians could probably have asked just as many awkward questions, but to be tossed out in front of Dawkins who is certainly going to call a spade a spade? Good heavens.
I wonder if he regrets doing the "I'm a Mormon" bit now?
They had to throw him out. I wanted more debate!! Too bad. Poorly planned show IMO. Dawkins was his usual kick ass self. Why does Flowers think the BOM has been torn apart and thinks it withstood the tests? Only thing I can think of is some GA told him so.
I'm not a big fan of Richard Dawkins. I think he is as closed-minded as the religious people he disagress with.
For example, he has been quoted many times saying that religions have created the greatest genocides in history. But the truth is, atheism has. Look at communism -- by very conservative estimates, it killed 100 million people in one century. The Catholic inquisition, on the other side, killed 100 thousand people over 5 centuries. There's plenty of historical research that shows this.
You might say it's not a matter of numbers, but then Dawkins' argument is still crashed. Atheism is as destructive, socially speaking, as religion.
Plus, Dawkins has never really been able to prove scientifically that God does not exist. He has never came up with a theory that explains the origin of the universe that answers all the questions. His argument basically reduces itself to "No one can prove that God exists; therefore, he does not exist". Anyone with a basic grasp of logic knows that this is as fallacious as "I feel that God exists; therefore, God exists".
Based on this, I think he should be more humble when talking to people. He acts as if his arguments are so new and original - but for God's sake, they have been around for thousands of years. Religious people can't prove anything, scientists can't prove anything, so they should both be humble and respect each other. But Dawkins is famous for his lack of respect towards most religious people. He was rude to Brandon Flowers, and Flowers answered in a rude way as well.
Plus, I don't think he "humiliated" Flowers in any way. Come on guys, "I have" isn't anything that "humilating".
And all of this is coming from someone who considers himself an atheist. :)
You can sum up all of those facts and you will not find 100 million people (which again, represent a conservative sum of the killings of communism). Plus, any serious student of the conquest of America knows that the Catholic church was always against the widespread killing of natives that happened, so no one can seriously attribute them to it. The records are just there. No one tried to protect natives in Brazil, for example, like the Jesuits did.
If Dawkins doesn't have to disprove religion, then why should religion have to prove itself?
I am not saying he should be discredited for never been able to disprove theories about God -- I am saying he should be more humble, because hey, he has not said anything that Sophists 3000 years ago haven't.
I also think Flowers just set himself up for being ridiculed. Seriously, you can't tell Richard Dawkins to "do his research" - you know the man has much more rethorical power of appeal to authority than you do. Plus, Flower's response was so childish compared to Dawkins' argument of the BoM language.
If it was me, I'd just have said something of this sort: "I don't want to comment because it is a matter of my faith, which I really can't prove to anyone". Then I'd shut up. Haha
Mr Flowers is a Musician who, on the face of it, is a believing Mormon. The real question is why can't a believing Mormon provide credible answers to credible questions about their religions beliefs and doctrines?
Holland couldn't do it, Flowers couldn't do it, Missionaries cannot do it, Romney cannot do it...etc.
The issue is that the Mormon religion as a whole gets its collective ass handed to it each and every time it comes under the inquisitive or scholarly spotlight.
Flowers is just a symptom of that lack of credibility and I feel sorry that his Church put him in a position where he couldn't answer sensibly.
Gotta hurry and get in on this before it closes!!!
Totally not fair.
BF is a 30 something career rocker who may have just come back to more activity (he smoked, drank, all that in perfect young jack Mormon apologetic style, there's many young men like him.) He didn't go on a mission, so I dare say he couldn't even begin to argue the virtues of Mormon faith with any atheist. Don't think he went to college, means he has no hard core philosophy or ethics to back him up. And he's a young famous millionaire. He's completely boring off stage. What a dumbass thinking he could dance with Dawkins.
Dawkins is a career scientist and atheist pundit- none better in the world to lambaste anyone with faith, especially an unlearned, untested, uneducated jack Mormon...
I'm not up on the latest Mo-JackMo gossip, so I didn't realize that Brandon Flowers had returned to the church. And, yes, I feel sorry for him. He was outmanuveured. He should have asked Dawkins to sing lead for the band at their next rehearsal, as payback.
stbleaving Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > He should have asked Dawkins to > sing lead for the band at their next rehearsal, as > payback.