Let me preface this by saying that I will NEVER say this to my mom because it is extremely cruel and judgemental. However, it is how I feel and I'm hoping if I type it out it will alleviate some of my sorrow.

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I guess you don't realize how disappointed I am in you that you've chosen to defend the indefensible. From my view, I have chosen the right and you have chosen to follow the teachings of an evil man. The fact that you know Joseph Smith had child brides and had affairs with married women and you still try to promote the church seems to me like deliberate deception. 

I actually find it immoral for you to encourage your grandchildren to be baptized, to serve  missions and so on. 

I  cringe when you proudly  post Mormon.org links on Facebook because I feel like you should be ashamed to be a Mormon. You have read the racist teachings of Brigham young and how you can be proud of that is mind boggling to me. 

You are the greatest woman and mother I know and seeing you reject the truth and embrace the lies truly breaks my heart. 

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I really can't get over my disappointment. I have never been so disappointed in a person ever. Not even close. I think because I always looked up to my mom it makes it especially hard to deal with.

I'm sobbing now. It just really hurts. My mom is my best friend and now there is this awkwardness and I feel like we can never be truly close ever again. I was able to handle this so much better when I could blame her belief on ignorance. I feel like the church has taken my mom away from me, like they've taken my entire family away from me. Every family function is permeated with Mormonism. I will never understand why some people hear the horrible truth and choose to ignore it. And I am so sad my mom is one of those people.

I know Dee, I know. Hugs. And yes, if she does not come to her core, her center of morality and her courage to face the truth, yes, your relationship will be permanently damaged.

I know exactly how you feel.

I'm so sorry.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'm getting a little better perspective on it this morning. It's just sometimes it hurts so bad.

My guess is she's equally disappointed in you. If you're best friends, can't you talk about this and try to understand eachother?

She's probably ignoring it because that's easier than the alternative. It's very hard to acknowledge that everything you ever believed in is a lie. It's even harder to act accordingly.

I know completely how she feels. I've been told my whole life how one should feel if a loved one leaves the church. I know she is crushed by this.

The problem is I told her the facts of why I could no longer be a member, how horribly distraught I am over the facts that I discovered and that my entire family is in a church of lies. So, she knows how hard it's been on me, but she keeps bringing up the church in ways that I feel is very disrespectful and that's why I wish she could know that she may think she's disappointed in me, but I am equally is not more disappointed in her.

I don't stick up for myself because I haven't figured out a way to express my feelings kindly.

I am so sorry what you've been through forest pal. It really is shameful how the church turns families against one another.

I wish they could keep things in perspective. I've realized that I'll also have to move away from my family as soon as I am able.

Well, at least my mother had the decency to be ashamed of our polygamous ancestors--and she disliked Brigham Young for "confiscating" my ancestors' land in downtown Salt Lake City (much of that land is now the City Creek Mall). We were a GA family, yet my mother and father didn't go to the temple, except when they were married, and when they forced me to get married in the temple.

My question to you is this: Why can't Mormons put religious belief into perspective? With most normal families, church is something that happens for an hour on Sundays, if at all. They attend out of respect for the family on Christmas Eve, and Easter Sunday, or Hanukah, or on Mother's Day to make Mom happy, or whatever. Certainly, the whole relationship of family members does not rest on the level of spirituality they display, or on how fanatical they can get, or how strict they are in their obedience. In Mormonism, children are loved according to their obedience. I was taught that all my life. So was my mother, and my grandmother. If I missed a church meeting, I was given "the silent treatment" the whole day.

How very SAD. Life is so precious, and fleeting. How sad that some bully of a cult stands in the way of love, and real connections between family members. I was a kind, gentle soul, and had great empathy for others, and I loved my mother. But my mother didn't see that. Her duty was to work on my imperfections, and make me look good at church. I played the piano to perfection, sang in choral groups, got A's in school, was athletic, looked pretty, was polite and popular, starred in plays, dated the best Mormon boys--but I never could really shine. It was all hollow. I was never myself. She allowed my older brother to abuse me, and she never punished him, but put the blame on me, saying, "You know we can't control your brother. It is up to YOU to stay out of his way, and be the peacemaker." My parents encouraged me to marry a RM from another GA family, whom I had known only a few months, when I was still mourning the loss of my Atheist childhood sweetheart. The day of my temple marriage to the RM, he changed from Dr. Jeckyl to Mr. Hyde. I had to divorce him, in order to save my own life, and in order to hopefully be married and have children someday. That was a dark day for my parents, because it made them lose face with their Mormon society friends.

I spent a lifetime trying to please someone who would not be pleased. I tried to be someone other than my self. I idolized my mother, for her charming personality, her beauty, her accomplishments, her intelligence, but I also feared her. She would explode into screaming tirades of obscenities, she would hit me, she would call me names, and she would damn me to Hell. I have PTSD from all the abuse, and to this day, I still have to tell myself that "Mother's curses" will never come true. I am not in Hell. I am not a failure. I am not sorry for questioning the cult. I'm not sorry for leaving home whenever possible. I am sorry for staying in the cult for so long, and being so obedient that I put myself in harms way. I am not sorry for breaking the cycle of abuse, and taking my children out of that religion and out of that dysfunctional family environment. For me, the great relationship between me and my children makes up for the lack of closeness with my mother.

I hope you find peace somewhere, some way, too. Your mother's insanity is not your fault. You are not obligated to fix her, either. You can take control and set boundaries for your mother. I chose to live far away from mine, and her abusive son. I didn't allow them to bully my children, and sometimes that meant separating my children from them. One of the boundaries you must set, is not allowing your mother to turn others against you, or to bad-mouth you to the rest of the family. My mother did this, and maybe she is in part responsible for how badly my brothers treated me. I have almost no contact with them now. At the root of all this, is the phony polygamous cult of lies that encourages phoniness and lying in its members. The cult enables abuse, doesn't respect females, and has great distain for other other races, divorced and single adults, other religions, and Mormons who leave. That just about covers everyone, doesn't it. A cult of hate.

Might I suggest you can alleviate some of your suffering by detaching yourself from what your mother believes and letting go of your emotionally attached expectations?

There is a saying in Buddhism that I found extremely helpful as I have many friends and relatives that have strong beliefs that are very different from mine.
It goes something like this:

The greatest unhappiness comes from unfulfilled emotionally attached expectations.

When something does not go the way we expect, and we have a strong emotional bond or attachment to that outcome, who is unhappy? The other person? Nope. It's us.

This is a principle of human behavior that I have found very helpful in dealing with others. It comes from a position of love and loving people "as-is" just as we want from others.

It's not easy, but it's very freeing to let go of our emotional attachment/bond to what we think they should do, for instance.
If we have no emotional bond to an expectation, we can accept it as "what is" and reduce our suffering that what we thought would happen did not - which equals less to no disappointment.

I have found that the more I live from a position of gratitude and love the greater my freedom and peace of mind.

Because I am a convert and looked at a lot of religions of the world, I can accept that people have the RIGHT to believe anything they want anytime they want, and it does not have to impact me, if I don't let it.

Just something to think about!

she doesn't know.... With some people the programming runs too deep and there's nothing that will change that.

I recommend kindling the best compassionate relationship you can with your mom and all loved ones. Like James Taylor says, "Shower the people you love with love, show them the way that you feel."

We only have so much time here regardless of our religious programming.

I know it's painful, and we want to be open and live our lives intentionally. Maybe, we can express ourselves so people know us and then move on.

Live life to the fullest!

Well, I suppose I have a different perspective on this. I have married and grown children (5), 20-some grandkids, and I think you should tell her everything that you wrote down, exactly as you wrote it. Why do so many of you try to "baby" your moms?? She's an adult; she can handle whatever her child says to her. If she can't, she needs to get out of her "baby" place (Mormon Mom) and realize that she's not always right. Kids have a right to put out their ideas to their parents and tell them of things they've learned. (I've learned so much from my kids. My youngest son, RM, extremely smart, was the one who told me he heard of a book by Grant Palmer and wanted me to get it and read it and then let him read it because he wanted to know what it said - I was very TBM. So I ordered the book, read it, and that was the beginning of my seeing the light. I'm so grateful to him for doing that for me.) There is a lot of knowledge out there; for someone like a Mormon mom, who is buried by the church's requests for work and has her mind filled with brainwashing church "talk",etc., there is little opportunity to learn anything new. So she's stuck in some old teachings from men. She needs to learn to think for herself, and maybe her daughter is the one who can help her get out of her rut.

If she won't consider anything you say, which is very likely, and if she chooses to be mean to you or put you down because you don't think like she taught you to think; then that's OK. You put the words in her mind, and they will be there whether she likes it or not and they will come to the surface now and then.

Also, people believe what they believe because there is something in it for them; there's a payoff. What is her payoff for not listening to you? Just think about it. If she wants that "payoff" rather than to be close to her own daughter, then let her have that payoff. And I suggest that the payoff for not listening to you from your heart, is mostly ego, feeling of self righteousness, the need to "be right", her reputation, etc. I've found that the "friends" I thought I had were only puppets.

"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in." -- Leonard Cohen

I agree with all of you. SuzieQ#1, I definitely know I need to detach and not rest my happiness on things I can not control. You are totally right. So often I KNOW the right way to think, but sometimes it is just hard to do what I know I should do.

Taketheredpill, you are totally right, I definitely will always love my mom and I am a very thoughtful daughter, a people pleaser, and I hope that will show her that people can be good, kind and loving outside of the church.

And LC, I totally agree with you as well. I'm not sure why we as exmos always have to take the high road and coddle the TBMs in our lives. However, I am currently living at home and very dependent on my parents. So I am choosing to tread lightly until I am able to be financially dependent again. At that time, I will be even more direct with my mom. In case it causes a rift then at least I won't have to interact with her on a daily basis.

Thanks everyone. I am feeling way better about things. And I love James Taylor and Leonard Cohen. :)

Dee Lightsum...

For me, there is a huge difference between knowing something intellectually and accepting it emotionally.

I know a lot of things, intellectually. In fact, I intellectualize everything.

I don't accept nearly as many things emotionally.

My father died 35 years ago (nevermo, just a violent, manipulative drunk) and I still have to stop myself every once in awhile to remind myself he's dead and can't hurt me any more... And, I still, sometimes mourn because I had a really bad childhood and would have liked to have had a better...

It takes awhile, but it does get better... Give yourself time and love yourself...

Go easy on your Mom. She has lived in a brainwashing cult for her whole life. She has been well trained with many thought stopping mechanisms. When I first told my mom I didn't believe I didn't go into a lot of detail about the issues but mentioned one thing Brigham Young said. Immediately she told me, "That has no effect on my testimony." That is the response they are trained to always have. They just tell themselves over and over that they already know it is true so no new information should have any impact on that knowledge. I know no matter what I told my Mom about church history or doctrine she will not change her mind. It is awkward sometimes when religious subjects come up but I think overall we still have a pretty good relationship.

That's the thing though, dazed11, I was brainwashed my whole life too. Almost all of us who are BiC have been. I just can never understand why some of us come across this information and choose the truth and others reject it. I guess during my "woe is me" times I'm thinking "why didn't my mom react like me? Why does it have to be this way?"

For So many of us, leaving the church is a matter of integrity. Even with all the pain that comes with it (shunning etc) we still "choose the right".

What makes us different?

I handed my mother over to her anger, and crazy beliefs years ago.
I've been the best mother i've ever had. My children even think i'm a great mom. I stopped the crazy train and got off.

Your letter is heartfelt. I too have written a letter to my mom, I have decided to give it to her. I think it's important to be able to express ourselves. Hugs. :)

My Mom has been gone for 16 years and were she alive, would have had a bigger problem with my resigning than Dad would have. I would have had words with her I'm sure, but the love would still be there, because her sons and her husband were were her life. Dad, I believe, was losing his faith in the church but not his faith in God in his final years.

Ron Burr

Hi Dee - I want to say the same thing to my sister. I love her dearly but she is absolutely enthralled with the church! It is sickening. She has many other great qualities which I choose to focus on. I don't discuss the church with her ever. Try that. AND you have my understanding and HUGS!! It is hard.

Thank you so much! I appreciate everyone's replies.

Enoughenoch19-I do avoid any discussion of church stuff and it is a challenge because everyone in my family talks so much about church. All of the comments I'd like to make are just plain rude (I.e.--"So and so just became active again. It's so wonderful" and I feel like saying "It's wonderful they're an idiot?") that is why I say nothing. My mom doesn't seem to want to show me the same respect since she is constantly bringing up faith promoting stories in casual conversation.

Anyway, I'm lucky to have a sister that has taken this journey out of the church with me. If it weren't for her and all of you here at RFM, I think I might go crazy. Hugs right back to you!

You are so lucky to have as sister that has left with you. That is something you will always treasure. I wish my sister could let go and go with it. She agrees with me, but is too tied in by family. We both know that, and do our best to have a relationship that works around all the 'stuff'.

The person(s) who left with me was my husband and two adult children. I feel very lucky about that.

My sister is also my best female friend. It would be nice if she could jump ship 100%. If she does I want to go to Italy and France with her just to drink wine and share the good things in life.

I'm in the same boat with my mom. I've tried talking to her about JS's wives, JoD, among other things. She doesn't care at all. She usually says, "That's just how it was back then." We never talk about religion except when GC comes up and she was so happy about the missionary age changing. That means it was another revelation and kids are so smart and ready to go at age 18 because we are living in the last days. It just proves that it really is the true church to her! I feel for you.

When I learned the truth about the CULT I tried to tell mum. I could excuse her for teaching me the lies she believed were true, and had no way of checking, but now, even shown how Holland lied in that documentary, and knowing how DNA disproves the BoM, she just blocks it out like a zombie and wants to teach kids the same lies.

I have zero respect for her now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2012 05:39AM by ozpoof.