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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
My baby sister and I got on the topic of the church and it's lies today. I was telling her the following regarding the church's approach to history and doctrine:
"I have been a member, faithful my whole life, read about church history extensively, taken seminary, classes at BYU, done research papers, and more and there is much that I never knew.
Some of which is just not spoken of, some of which is printed as outright lies or obfuscation in the Ensign, and some of which they have actually made changes to in church history, the Book of Mormon, and D&C."
I was using the article from the April 2007 Ensign about Parley P. Pratt as an example of how the church lies. See the article here: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/04/the-extraordinary-life-of-parley-p-pratt?lang=eng
I can spot many of the lies myself in this article, but many of you have studied this more than I have. Any help with specific examples of untruths would be much appreciated. I'm working with her just on the "facts" in the article, even though I know there are many more lies out there.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2012 08:21PM by twojedis.
"I have been a member, faithful my whole life, read about church history extensively, taken seminary, classes at BYU, done research papers, and more and there is much that I never knew.
Some of which is just not spoken of, some of which is printed as outright lies or obfuscation in the Ensign, and some of which they have actually made changes to in church history, the Book of Mormon, and D&C."
I was using the article from the April 2007 Ensign about Parley P. Pratt as an example of how the church lies. See the article here: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/04/the-extraordinary-life-of-parley-p-pratt?lang=eng
I can spot many of the lies myself in this article, but many of you have studied this more than I have. Any help with specific examples of untruths would be much appreciated. I'm working with her just on the "facts" in the article, even though I know there are many more lies out there.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2012 08:21PM by twojedis.
There's that quote by Packer about not telling all the truth. Also there is that UK interview clip where Holland gets caught red handed lying about the church. And the famous Hinckley & Larry King clip. Hinckley buying the Hoffman letters in an attempt to keep them concealed.
You've probably thought of most of this but here's a top of mind list:
- The original BoM retrieval story is VERY different than the one in JHS - toads, Alvin, etc.
- Joseph translating the BoM with a seer stone in a hat. Joseph having been convicted of using the same seer stone fraudulently for buried treasure.
- Joseph shooting 2-4 people in Carthage jail
- Anthon's side of the story on the seer stone
- That Orson Pratt & Orson Hyde should have been the 3rd & 4th president of the church but got demoted partially because of a spat over the Adam God Theory and partially because of a spat with JS over polyandry.
- The Moroni vision when 17 occurring in a room with 5 brothers and 2 sleeping in the same bed. The fact that Lucy Smith originally recorded that it was Nephi, not Moroni.
- The ugly details of the succession of Brigham Young - the church usually just tells the Brigham Young took on Joseph Smith's visage while speaking story - which actually if very suspect with limited after the fact witnesses and witnesses who say exactly the opposite.
- Don't forget the youtube video top 10 mormon problems explained does a really good job of addressing exactly this question.
- The problems in Emma & Joseph's marriage.
- The real reason the printing press was destroyed - in part the exposition of polygamy.( They weren't lies like the church says.)
- D&C 104 was a coverup of how they leaders split up the proceeds of the united order
- The changes to D&C and BoM
- Joseph Smith's polyandry (and often even polygamy)
- Joseph Smith publicly preaching against polygamy while privately practicing it.
You've probably thought of most of this but here's a top of mind list:
- The original BoM retrieval story is VERY different than the one in JHS - toads, Alvin, etc.
- Joseph translating the BoM with a seer stone in a hat. Joseph having been convicted of using the same seer stone fraudulently for buried treasure.
- Joseph shooting 2-4 people in Carthage jail
- Anthon's side of the story on the seer stone
- That Orson Pratt & Orson Hyde should have been the 3rd & 4th president of the church but got demoted partially because of a spat over the Adam God Theory and partially because of a spat with JS over polyandry.
- The Moroni vision when 17 occurring in a room with 5 brothers and 2 sleeping in the same bed. The fact that Lucy Smith originally recorded that it was Nephi, not Moroni.
- The ugly details of the succession of Brigham Young - the church usually just tells the Brigham Young took on Joseph Smith's visage while speaking story - which actually if very suspect with limited after the fact witnesses and witnesses who say exactly the opposite.
- Don't forget the youtube video top 10 mormon problems explained does a really good job of addressing exactly this question.
- The problems in Emma & Joseph's marriage.
- The real reason the printing press was destroyed - in part the exposition of polygamy.( They weren't lies like the church says.)
- D&C 104 was a coverup of how they leaders split up the proceeds of the united order
- The changes to D&C and BoM
- Joseph Smith's polyandry (and often even polygamy)
- Joseph Smith publicly preaching against polygamy while privately practicing it.
GAs DENY that ChurchCo hides any Facts, that itself is a lie!
google european rescue LDS for the GA letter saying they don't hide facts:
http://archive.org/details/TheMormoneuropeanRescueDocument
the church tradition/culture of Lying started with JS Denying that polyg was happening, years before the (claimed) restoration of the PH sealing keys.
Hinckley,when asked when Polyg started, replied: "When our people came west..."
Well, Mr. Hinckley, it started BEFORE going west was a Dream.
How Many lies are necessary? I vote Only One.
One More?
the First edition of the BoM... JS was credited by THE EIGHT WITNESSES with being the AUTHOR of the BoM... then, Presto! Magico!! in the second & subsequent editions... JS is said (Again, 8 Witnesses) to be the 'translator'.
One More?
the Book of Abraham says (Explanation No. 5?) that our sun borrows its light (a form of energy) from Kolob.
JS... didn't know / hadn't heard about Nuclear Fusion; apparently the Mormon God didn't bother to reveal it to him that our sun is a self-sustaining independent Star.
Kolob? not so much.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2012 04:38PM by guynoirprivateeye.
google european rescue LDS for the GA letter saying they don't hide facts:
http://archive.org/details/TheMormoneuropeanRescueDocument
the church tradition/culture of Lying started with JS Denying that polyg was happening, years before the (claimed) restoration of the PH sealing keys.
Hinckley,when asked when Polyg started, replied: "When our people came west..."
Well, Mr. Hinckley, it started BEFORE going west was a Dream.
How Many lies are necessary? I vote Only One.
One More?
the First edition of the BoM... JS was credited by THE EIGHT WITNESSES with being the AUTHOR of the BoM... then, Presto! Magico!! in the second & subsequent editions... JS is said (Again, 8 Witnesses) to be the 'translator'.
One More?
the Book of Abraham says (Explanation No. 5?) that our sun borrows its light (a form of energy) from Kolob.
JS... didn't know / hadn't heard about Nuclear Fusion; apparently the Mormon God didn't bother to reveal it to him that our sun is a self-sustaining independent Star.
Kolob? not so much.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2012 04:38PM by guynoirprivateeye.
I should have clarified that I'm looking for lies specifically in this article. There are so many lies, and I love Richard Packham's page on that. I am working with her on one specific article where they lied. We'll go onto more after that.