The things can't stay away from each other. First time I was at Sea World, I was shocked to see a dolphin having his way with another dolphin, only for the second dolphin to extend a penis as soon as the first was done, and return the favor.

Anyone else with first hand witnessing gay animal behavior?

Tonight on Animal Planet:'Wank of the Dolphins'

Dolphins also do oral. They buzz each others' genitals to make a pleasant vibration, and then friends return the favor.

I grew up on a farm, and steers, billy goats, rams, and dogs have recreational sex all the time regardless of gender & often of species. I think the Turkeys did too... but it was hard to tell where fighting stopped & sex began.

Dolphins are the only ones I know of where females will have oral sex with other females... but Dolphins are also one of the few animals KNOWN to have sex purely for enjoyment.

Stephen Fry is my new role model:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9589899/Stephen-Fry-260-animals-have-gay-tendencies-but-only-humans-are-homophobic.html

Because it points out just one more false belief that morMons are taught as truth.

Could you please provide me with a link to a Mormon website that contains a statement saying "there is no homosexuality in animals?"

Wish I could provide the link. Religious people will state this, but they work it both ways. The other tack is "Animals are crude and low. We are supposed to be above them, as we have God's word and they don't. That's why we shouldn't act in animalistic, bestial ways." Masters of rationalization.

It is not a "Crime against nature" if it is prevalent in nature.

http://blogs.standard.net/the-political-surf/2012/05/08/lds-church-is-slowly-but-consistently-moving-to-tolerance-on-homosexuality/

Yes, Kimball was quite fond of referring to homosexuality as unnatural. I believe the word "unnatural" implies that it doesn't happen in nature. And if it does happen in nature, it's therefore not unnatural.

Packer is also fond of labeling homosexuality as unnatural, even fairly recently. Like this quote from 2010: "Some suppose that they were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember he is our father."

It's hard to make a case that dolphins and bonobos and cats and dogs and thousands of other species can be born gay, but that humans can't, especially once you throw out that "he is our father" bit.

Because Mormons, for very irrational reasons, are at war with homosexuals.

I can't believe you would even have to ask how this applies. Have you ever heard of Prop 8? Have you ever heard of The Family: A Proclamation to the World? Haven't you ever heard a Mormon (or any other religious person) talk about how homosexuality is "unnatural"? Haven't you ever read The Miracle of Forgiveness? Heard Mr Boyd Packer give a talk? Heard about aversion therapy at BYU, or reparative therapy at LDS Social Services? Haven't you ever seen the statistics about how many young men commit suicide in Utah every year? Or how many gay teenagers are thrown out onto the street and disowned by their unaccepting LDS families?

If there were a Top 10 list of topics that had to do with Recovery from Mormonism, this topic would definitely make the list, at least in my opinion. Just because you've never given any thought to how homosexual and transgender individuals are treated in and by the so-called church doesn't mean none of the rest of us have. Homosexuality is completely natural in the animal kingdom, of which we are a part. Some of us accept that as fact, but Mormonism doesn't. And people get hurt in the crossfire. THAT's why we talk about it.

And if you want links, look them up yourself. I have better things to do than look up steaming piles of crap at lds.org.

My heterosexual TBM BIL waited 2 years to submit his mission papers because of prop8 (how could a true church be so bigotted?) [unfortunately he's come up with some mental back flip, & has recently submitted his papers]

I'm heterosexual, & it makes my top 10 list. Heck, it makes my top 3 list:
1) Scriptures are conflictive & impossible (special emphasis on BoA)
2) Scripture/Church teachings are dangerous, immoral, guilt-ridden, & bigotted (special emphasis on violence & apocalypse)
3) TSCC was based on (& still does) malignantly subjigate its members (emphasis on polygamy, polyandry, & tithing)

#2 encompases discrimination against homosexuals (& women, & other races, & free-thinkers, & TBMs who ask questions, & science, etc...)

I must admit this is the first time I've ever been given the advice to go watch dolphins hump each other. I'm trying to think of any other instance of someone ever recommending this particular piece of advice. Nope, can't think of a single instance ever.

I may just use it in casual conversation sometime. "Hey also, have you ever seen gay aquatic mammals get it on? I recommend it."

Every year around valentines day they have special "sex" tours of the zoo.

The tours focus on the sexual habits of all the different animals and is very popular.

It's sound advice.

Say you were ever in a situation where you had to watch re-runs of Flipper, at least there would be a new interesting sub-text!

Ranger Ricks was the first person I recall ever having a crush on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZukXgC_lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJjPdiw3ne8&feature=fvwrel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2012 03:22AM by Itzpapalotl.

My dog humps my leg. Does that count?

Let's define NATURAL : existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural?s=t

If all dolphins (or monkeys or elephants or humans) were homosexual then the species would quickly die off (become extinct). For a species to be natural it must be self-sustaining.

Homosexual behavior is NOT self-sustaining, therefore it is UNNATURAL. So the Brethren are technically correct when they refer to homosexuality as being unnatural.

Of course anyone is free to reject what the Brethren say. I rejected them 53 years ago.

But not all dolphins (or monkeys or elephants or humans) are homosexual, are they?

You're conflating a behaviour (trait or orientation or preference) found within a species with an actual species.

Homosexuality is not a species; it is found within a species.

All a trait (in this case homosexuality) needs to do to survive the ages, is survive. It's heterosexual sex that makes homosexuals and this has been occurring for thousands of years! I'd say that that is pretty good evidence that we, as a species, sustain homosexuality pretty damn well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2012 08:44AM by spaghetti oh.

Heterosexuality is natural and heterosexuals survive. But through some genetic accident, which science does not understand, heterosexuals produce homosexuals. BUT, the homosexuals cannot produce more homosexuals. Therefore homosexuality is UNNATURAL. For something to be natural it must have the ability sustain itself.

Good grief, your logic here is very flawed.

Where in the definition of natural does it say anything about being self-sustaining?

You're completely redefining the words "natural" and "unnatural". Let's go to the dictionary, shall we?

Natural - existing in or formed by nature (first definition at dictionary.com)

Homosexual behavior and homosexual individuals exist in and are formed by nature. Therefore, homosexual behavior and homosexual individuals are natural.

Unnatural - contrary to the laws or course of nature (again, first definition at dictionary.com)

Homosexual behavior and homosexual individuals are clearly not contrary to the course of nature. Both occur in numerous animal species in the course of nature. Therefore, homosexual behavior and homosexual individuals are not unnatural.

You can't just go and make up your own definitions for things and expect other people to take your made-up definitions seriously.

Science does understand large portions of how homosexuality perpetuates itself. Much of it has to do with aggression.

Heterosexual male mammals tend to be aggressive & have a pecking order. Homosexual male mammals tend to be non-aggressive, so the pecking order isn't challenged allowing them to remain within the culture.

In order to survive, there does need to be reproduction, but just as a large percentage of Heterosexuals participate in homosexual behavior at some point, so to do a large percentage of homosexuals participate in heterosexual intercourse at some point.

Now, in humans that behavior is becoming less "reproduction" and more "experimentation" because we have the intelligence to prevent pregnancy... but in the rest of the animal kingdom that isn't true.

...so the trait does have a biological advantage: the alpha male doesn't kill you or chase you out of the pack.

It has a slight reproductive disadvantage (they enseminate females less & therefore reproduce less frequently), but because of the first trait, they have longer to do so.

Conclusion:
--Evolution is a part of nature, but the word "natural" exists as a superset of that (it encompasses more than just evolution)
--Homosexuality is not a complete mystery to science, & doesn't fly in the face of evolution; though it was initially somewhat puzzling (as heterosexual sex is the central/easiest cog of evolution)

You can't even get away from porn by going to Sea World.

Don't even get me started on the female dolphin trainers in their skin tight wet suits.

Last time I went to Sea World, I wasn't paying attention to Shamu.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2012 10:14AM by forbiddencokedrinker.