Today DW had the radio on a local talk show featuring Hans V. Anderson, Orem City Council member. I thought "good, let's hear about tax issues and various thing affecting Orem."

This guy talks in a folksy, Mormon farmer type way in that you can almost imagine him in bib overalls and standing on a fruit ladder. He also used the phrase "just between us girls" about three times. Is that a bit sexist? You tell me.

But then someone called in and started talking about "Agenda 21," some sort of UN thing. Apparently the council is going to vote on this, and you'd think it was number one concern of all time. They started having a classic right-wingnut convo the likes of which I've seldom heard! Here are words that show what sort of things were brought up: UN, Glenn Beck, anti-christ, Satan, socialism, prayer, animal rights, Ezra Taft Benson, etc.

I thought I had been transported back to Utah County in the 1960's!

It was a shock, really. I had forgotten that this wing-nut mindset is still so alive and well in my community.

What's worse is that all of the yokel local politicians are more aware of Agenda 21's "adverse" effects on our freedom than they are of the deteriorated state of the sewer system.

What do you expect from people who believe in Nephites?

Whether you like things thought up at the UN or not, why would a city council be bothering with it? Stick with the issues we voted you in to deal with. That pretty much includes the things inside the city limits, wanker. This is the right-wing version of Rocky Anderson. I think both are nuts. Stick to the subject at hand.

They aren't just bothering with it, they are all experts on it. Yet when you ask them anything about real city business they stammer and stutter and can't tell you what streets need a new stoplight, and what area needs increased police patrols. It makes me more than angry.

You might want to do some reading about "Agenda 21", folks. The reason that local politicians know something about this agenda, is that the agenda impacts American cities locally. It is not some UN global ethereal thing that may or may not happen "out there somewhere", it is an actual UN program with many supporters. It is already being implemented all over the map. It will affect your local situation, and involves local US jurisdictions changing their business, land use and zoning to fit a UN agenda.

If implemented according to UN planning, it will impact Utah County in many ways. Some people don't think that all the possible impacts are positive for their local areas. So it's controversial. Worth looking into, IMO.

Agenda 21 is an agreement many governments signed without ever discussing it or putting it to the people. It is a sneaky Fabianesqe way of getting an extreme green agenda pushed through. I say Fabian because this extreme left group admit they must thwart democracy as "wolves in sheep's clothing" to get their agenda passed.

It is definitely misanthropic and anti-development, especially for poor countries which defeats the purpose since the demographic transition to zero population growth happens once societies become wealthy enough to support people in their old age without them needing to have a lot of children.

People are also unable to even consider their impact on the environment when their focus is the next meal. The greatest pressure on environments comes when people are poor.

I'm no right-winger, but some of these UN people are talking about reducing human numbers to 500 million. That's not limits to growth, that's elimination if people.

Like many of the UN's actions it is unenforceable, and thus, not worthy of consideration.

If local states, counties and cities just simply adopt voluntarily the various means and goals of "Agenda 21", then there is no need for enforcement by the UN. Enforcement will be carried out by the local US jurisdictions.

Once again, if you can control the people in positions of power, you can control the rest of the masses. New laws, new police powers, and you must comply or pay the penalty.

Given the right wing's feelings about the UN, I can't really see this making very much progress. I also don't think that it's as bad as everyone is making it out to be. It's an urban planning idea.

All UN treaties, like any other treaties, are subject to ratification by the United States Senate. Treaties cannot usurp the constitution.

Personally, I think we have more problems than urban planning initiatives put forth by the UN, a large impotent organization that has no official role in the US government.

It's just another thing - like FEMA camps - the far right likes to go nuts over, rather addressing real problems that can be solved.

Killing 6.5 billion people? Can you imagine people standing by while some agency kills billions of people?

If you are responding to my post, John, please note that I have said nothing on this thread regarding depopulation of 6.5 billion people under Agenda 21. I will assume your comment about that in the above post is directed at Ozpoof.

I think you may be surprised at the types of people who support, and who oppose, Agenda 21. They cross party lines. George HW Bush signed the US on to this initially, and Clinton institutionalized the agenda with new US agencies. All of this is being paid for by the US taxpayer, of course.

Here is a link to a page of "Democrats Against Agenda 21", which includes a brief rundown of the history and activities of Agenda 21, and what it means to us.

http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

ozpoof Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but some of these UN people
> are talking about reducing human numbers to 500
> million. That's not limits to growth, that's
> elimination if people.

Why, whatever will happen to them?

Will it involve black helecopters?

they will simply Hie To Kolob...

You're right. Governments have never rounded up "undesirables" and executed them by the millions before have they? Read much history?

I think withholding medication from Africa because they are prohibited to manufacture cheap copies is a good start at depopulation considering in a decade or two there will not be enough people left in sub Saharan Africa to bury the dead from AIDS.

Who's crazier? People who believe people like the Bush family are humanitarians who have at heart the people they rule, or those who distrust those with a history of criminality ans corruption?

I also have as much faith in the goodness of the green cult as I do with the motives of any religious fanatics in power. Sorry if I view with suspicion those who call people a cancer that the planet needs to be rid of.

what a nice life you must have if the scariest group you face are the 'greens' at the UN.

i wouldn't lose to much sleep...

"Governments have never rounded up "undesirables" and executed them by the millions before have they? Read much history?"

On the scale of BILLIONS? Come on man, there is no way you could use a single incidence in the entirety of Human history to show that an extreme green agenda would be the cause for wiping out 6.5 billion people and leaving 500 million people. There is no precedence.

Also, agenda 21 is non-binding. Besides, in everything I've read about it so far I can't find a single part of the 40 pages that talk about a forced reduction of human population or a forced relocation.

come on snb, you're letting reason get in the way of their 'cuckoo'...

i've heard plenty of men, when speaking to other men, say 'just between us girls'

of course they were all gay...

Average IQ in Utah = 87

Only Mississippi is lower with 85.

100 IQ is the comprehensive average.

nuff said!

I have to admit that my figures were sourced from the Economist and have been disputed by some.

That's a damn good weekly and if read by more people we would all be better off. I used to get it every week but now just read it online.

It's crazy how statistics contradict the Utah story. I had always heard that Utah has more college graduates per capita than any other state. The reality is embarrassing 38% of Utahan adults have a college degree and only about half of those entering college in Utah finish. Both numbers are in the lower third of the US.

Now, with the missionary age being lowered, the Utah college graduation rate will decline even further, especially among women.

I would question that statistic immediately. IQ hasn't been taken seriously by legitimate educators for decades. Originally it was meant as a test of young children to determine whether or not they were mentally disabled/deficient (two standard deviations below the mean of 100). It is not currently used on children today and is all but useless with adults.

Some researchers still use it to find correlation between some higher level brain functions, specifically spatial and visual reasoning skills, and other things that they are studying.

It should not be used as a legitimate indicator of intelligence by anyone.

This shows standardized scores in all states. Utah hits the country average and is a few points ahead in some. Sorry, but they ain't as dumb as they sound.


http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/

Two ways of looking at that, Utahans are the smartest of the dumbs, or they are the dumbest of the smarts. Either way, it's nothing to write home about.

Utah probably shouldn't be too proud of finishing in the middle of the pack. Yes, they do have an immigrant population, but it's small compared to that of many other states.

(side note?) I'm betting that state & local taxes in Utah are among the Lowest in the U.S.... (excepting oil-rich alaska, whose residents get a 'Rebate')

It's the whole 'race for the bottom' mentality in Utah; Strongly Discourage unions, count tips against minimum wage for people who get them, etc.

So, even tho they're LOW already... politicians still gotta pander to the taxpayers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2012 11:39PM by guynoirprivateeye.

The federal government already condones the use of tips to offset payment of a minimum wage. I believe the official figure is $2.34, that comes out of the pocket of the employer. The waiter/waitress is responsible for making up the rest through tips.

Why we should be subsidizing restaurant owners' labor costs is beyond me.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

Dumb and deluded aren't the same thing.

Well done my man. We shouldn't accept these sorts of crap statistics without questioning them. Clearly many people here have...

Quoting from up-thread: "This shows standardized scores in all states. Utah hits the country average and is a few points ahead in some. Sorry, but they ain't as dumb as they sound.
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/ "

Utah specializes in mediocrity.

Utah is the Lawrence Welk of human culture.