I wasn't sure what to title this thought dump, but I was listening to the Mormon Expressions podcast about divorce, and it helped me articulate a concern I've had with marriage for many, many years. The concern is how am I realistically to know what I want out of a long term relationship if I cannot learn what a relationship is to me by not experiencing it in a way I learn? A subset of this issue is sex, and how am I to know what I want out of a physical relationship if I will be sent to hell for even trying to figure it out? I was one of those that bought into SWK's crap about two folks with a testimony would make it work. The problem is that I feel conned by that concept now. I was a guy, there were physical attributes in a woman that I wanted have part of my life. I look back wi regret that I settled for a testimony, rather than the sex demon I dreamed of. I was going on faith that it would somehow be what I wanted. I know it is ultimately my choices that have me at this point in life. I recognize too that the pressures of Mormonism are unrealistic, and contribute to irrationality in the decision making process. I wonder how many temple marriage bound couples actually talk about sex and expectations before they marry? I know I did not, and would have felt unbelievable unrighteousness for trying to initiate a conversation about it. I hate the church for the unrealistic lens it gave me to look at life through. I don't blame it, I will only blame myself. It sucks to be around forty and wonder what could have been, or to even have so much regret over decisions I've made, and why I have made them. If I could get my flux capacitor to work, I'd definitely ignore the influencing of the church to seek after virtue and righteousness. Tis a lonely and fake existence.

I have often wondered if Mormons would feel less pressured to marry quickly if sex were allowed before marriage. I feel like so many people rush into marriage with total strangers because they are excited for the sex. Maybe there would be more happy unions in Mormonism if people were allowed to experiment before hand and find out that their potential eternal companion is actually not into sex at all. Easier to find this out before than after right?

Amen to that. I'm in my 50's and I still want to go back to my 20's and start all over again.



Amen...

well in automotive terms there are a lot of Chevy vega spouses out there and they need to be sold/ moved off of the sales lots.
Of course the Church does not want anyone taking test drives or you might find out that the chevy drives like a chevy vega, and then you dont want to buy one. LDS INC wants you to think that all cars drive exactly the same - just like a Corvette if enough effort is put into the driving according to them and SPencer Kimball. they want you committed to your purchase. and when your chevy vega spouse shits the cylinder liners out via the exhaust system, they will insist that you keep making payments on your defective purchase just as they contracted you to do so.

It just goes to show the real danger in magical thinking. Rather than do the emotional and mental work required to explore oneself and one's own sexuality in order to determine who would make a great partner, we're taught to simply have faith and follow the rules. It's a magic trick. You wave your hands around, reach into the hat and pull out a rabbit, with whom you will live righteously and happily for eternity, forever and ever, amen.

Magic.

Same thing here except I'm in my 20's. I was conned marrying the first pretty girl I could get to the altar after my mission. I had serious doubts but I had also bought into that SWK bullshit about any two righteous people being happy together. I was blind to all rational thought by my pent-up lifelong craving for hot steamy sex.

A few years and a couple kids later, a dismal mormon sex life finally gave me the boost I needed to admit to myself what I had known all along -- that the whole thing is a fraud. What I want out of life has done a complete 180, and now that there isn't the Mormon thing in common anymore there's not much left between my wife and me. I knew we weren't compatible in some ways before, but didn't learn we were sexually compatible until our wedding night. I was conned out of a single life -- wasn't allowed more than an artificial Mormon double date before my mission and my wife was the first girl I asked out after.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread. But it looks like you and I are both faced with the same question: Do we keep living in misery in order to not hurt our wife and kids, or do we just leave?

Oops. It should read:

"I knew we weren't compatible in some ways before, but didn't learn we were sexually INcompatible until our wedding night."

You guys were all conned by the church - but so were your wives. Maybe your wife wishes she hadn't said yes to the first Peter Priesthood who proposed. Best thing to do, I think, would be to ask her if she's really happy being married to you. If she's not happy either, and if you both would be better off single, then it might be time to move on. Kids can adjust, and they are happier if their parents are happy.
Or, if you think there is something in your marriage worth saving, then make a new start. Talk to your spouse, really get to know each other, find what you do have in common and build on that.
The one thing you shouldn't do is continue on with a half-committment to your marriage, feeling regretful for missed opportunities. Life is too short to waste like that. No relationship is perfect, so either fix the one you have or get out and start over.

My TBM husband got married too soon, and admitted to me after we were married that he was still thinking about the cute blonde girl he never had the courage to ask out in high school. Don't do that to yourself or your spouse. We divorced and both found someone else we're happier with, but my ex is still mad at me for leaving him - go figure.
Don't live a fake life. Make the choice now, whether you really honestly want to be with your spouse, or not. Once you know what you want, you can live your life with no regrets.

It's not a lot different for women, ya know. We are taught that the wonderful procreation act must be saved for marriage and if you've found out that the best part of that act can be achieved without an audience, you will go to hell. Hell. So just save it for marriage and you will have tons-o-fun. And don't be too picky. Any two temple-worthy people can have a great marriage and satisfy each other and all that.

Then you find out that guys know absolutely NOTHING about how women's bodies work. Hell, mormon women just barely out of their teens really have little clue. The big excitement about getting married was not the fireworks you expected, but rather the little smoke bomb or some other dud. Of course you never talked about it, about expectations, about what you knew or what you wanted. It was just supposed to work. But gawdforbid, even though you're married, you desire the satisfaction that you know you could get without your eternal spermbank being involved, guilt guilt guilt.

Yup, to be able to go back and 1) not feel rushed into marriage just to have sex, 2) have the time to find someone you're compatible with on an emotional and intellectual basis and 3) make sure you are physically compatible or figure out what you need to do to meet each others' expectations (let alone TALK about those expectations) BEFORE marriage, would be heaven.

Isn't the main purpose of marriage (personal) Learning & Growth?

isn't it about establishing a partnership, with sex as 'just' one aspect?

think about the Total of the time you're together, then determine how much (%) of that is spent having-doing sex/sexual activities.

Isn't wanting a 'perfect' anything a bit selfish?

The focus on sex/sexuality is out of proportion, IMHO.

To each their own I guess.

When you're a healthy mid-20's male who's sexually frustrated, trapped in a marriage the mormon church conned you into, miserable, and regularly having dreams at night about sex outside the marriage, things are tough. Especially when you don't want to hurt your wife and kids.

Maybe I just need to "man up" and suppress it ... But most people these days wouldn't tell me to just suck it up if I was gay ... Is my case different?

If U think the (LDS) church 'conned' you into your marriage... Aren't you dismissing your own choices in the matter, Including your choice of a partner?

just a thought.

I think... we sometimes take matters to Extremes in our thinking.

On one extreme, there's a church that decides 'everything' for you/me/us/all members

On the other, we're independent agents, free to think/reason/decide for ourselves.

neither is an accurate representation of reality, IMHO.

I think Marriage is just an act of joining one thing to another to make it as one new thing. What happens after that only matters to the new thing. If the new thing can survive it could be called good. If not it will self destruct back into its somewhat origianl form. Mom and Dad, still married on paper self destructed a long time ago. I do not consider them married.