Swiss govt claims missionaries are paid employees. Since they are living in LDS housing and receive stipends, I can see this interpretation. Families don't pay for missionaries, they just donate money to the church.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/state/story/American-Mormon-missionaries-to-be-phased-out-of/pCEwRL3e6EOX5Kw87TAJrw.cspx

I'm very happy for the people of Switzerland!

Well, all this means is that American missionaries can't be assigned to Switzerland. This will not stop door-to-door missionaries in Switzerland all together though... There are still LDS churches over there, and the chruch is likely to suggest that after Switzerland's home-bred missionaries pass through the MTC, they can simply keep their own guys to serve at home, just send them to different cities, like American missionaries that serve in America.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2010 07:09AM by melissa3839.

The morg will have to change their game plan to stay in that country. Works for me as it might mean an interruption in the program.

that are rapidly becoming a drain on the economic and welfare systems over here in Western Europe. Once in a country they disappear using false or stolen identities and eventually cause an increase in dependent families and impact on crime statistics.

Unfortunately this rule cannot be bent for Americans or other Western states as this will create loopholes that need to stay firmly closed.

The Swiss are watching what happens in France and England and are taking heed. We have learned the hard way but now are trying to fix the problem.

Briggy

It's already unbearable. Municipals say they win when they take immigrants, but people don't seem to understand that state money is also from the pockets of the citizens, it's not falling from the sky. And after a couple of years the state won't pay for anybody and then it all gets pretty sour. But it's too late.

I hate short-sighted politicians.

Sweden is fast getting a poor reputation and the immigration authority is a mess - they don't care what the laws say.

Sweden is accepting a horribly unproportionate amount of pretty much anybody that cares to come. We are only 9 million but accept, per capita, lots more of even Europeans who just pop in than say Germany or France. Immigrations officers are not allowed to make sure of the identities of anybody, not chech their age, people get permanent residence permits which aren't retrieved even when the authorities find out the person has lied, and so forth. The Dublin convention is just a paper, it is not observed. No wonder we have lots of extremely fanatical islamistic men. BTW, the Swedish security police had absolutly no idea of the guy who acted on 11th December in Stockholm.

It's not going to end well.

Its good news but I'm concerned that the church will simply shift to using home grown and European missionaries.

it's what's called "inspiration" nowadays...

I think the Mormon church should form a bunch of basketball coaches that go two-by-two through the streets. Or people who work for a church youth organization. Or even musicians--shoot, they don't have to actually know how to play anything.

All they have to do is drag out one of their previous underhanded and disingenuous tricks from past visa problems. However, I should warn the LDS church: The Swiss are a helluvalot more savvy than the Mexicans.

this is a start and precendent. If I am the profit and his pesky apostles, I'd be thinking, "hmmmm this doesn't look good PR wise..how do we spin this to look like the work is progressing?"

Most of the time paranoia gets best of the Swiss.

It includes all foreign missionaries of all denominations. Also, the LDS congressional contingent (including Harry Reid) have sent a letter to the Swiss ambassador asking the Swiss government to reconsider. Stay tuned.

Remember, prior to the equalized approach, parents paid for the mission directly. This was not tax deductable, but did not create and employer/employee relationship.

Now, people pay directly to the church, with no assumed connection between money paid for a missionary and the missionary him/her self. This allows the donation to be tax deductable. BUT, the church pays for the missionary's expenses directly, including housing, transportation, food, etc. This creates an employment relationship. In some countries, this means if you are not a national, you need a work permit.

In some countries, over the years, missionaries had to fly under the radar. For example, in the old Yugoslavia, missionaries, just walked around, waiting for people to approach them. No tracking, no approaching people on the street. No suit, white shirt and tie.

Can't have it both ways, kids.

“The Church has a long history in Switzerland dating back to 1850. We hope a solution can be found that allows missionaries, regardless of their country of origin, to continue to serve the Swiss people. In our experience, the Church’s missionaries return home after service in Switzerland with great love and respect for the people, history, and culture of the country.”

Maybe the church's solution will include just stop giving the missionaries stipends.

Their parents will probably have to pay for them and also pay into the missionary fund. This could be a money maker for the Morg.

Disturbing use of the word "serve" in the statement. I know it's how they see it, but "coerce" "badger" and "solicit funds from" "produce religious elitists" and any number of other more accurate meanings. Sullies the word "serve."

dass sie ein durchaus vernuenftiges Volk sind.

So-proud-of-my-second-homeland-ly yrs,

S

Translation:
Again, the Swiss proved

that they are a perfectly reasonable people.

my mom is sure to interpret this as a sign that the missionaries are being called home in the last days and send me more wheat and powdered milk to prepare for the end. Or the beginning of the end. I'm happy for the people of Switzerland because even if they use native missionaries, those serving won't be cramming Utah Mormonism down the throats of the Swiss people. It's a step in the right direction, at least.

Of course TSCC can still send non-American mishies, but where would these have to come from? Switzerland? Europe? It's not like there are that many European teens who are active in the LDS church. Most missions in Europe have ten Americans for every non-American.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2010 12:15PM by Zeno Lorea.

And the rules will be changed...

Probably got Mitt Romney on it already (Mitt does speak French).

Using homegrown missionaries would be difficult since most European families are very small, with a couple of kids at most.

Unfortunately for the morg, Europeans equate large families with social irresponsibility and habitual drunkeness.LOL.

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwwwwwwww (happy meow sound).

It is probably related to immigration since countries in the EU have open borders to other EU countries.

So all that will happen is that there will be no american missionaries. In my mission there was a pretty even split between americans and europeans. In that mission it will be all europeans, which I have no doubt will change the whole culture of the mission.

It also means there will be no american couple missionaries or mission presidents. So the american church will have no american mishies, should be interesting to see how it turns out.

I imagine it will be largely dominated by German missionaries since they are so close and quite established. It may even get its own MTC like the UK. Who knows?

So missionaries will continue with no difference really, it's nice to know that the Mormons asked for an exception and were DENIED!! Why because nobody likes mormons.

They are a country of direct democracy, with lots and lots of referendums. They still make their own laws. I'd like to move there but they probably wouldn't accept me as a political refugee from Sweden.

Yep, they have smokin hot daughters who I wasn’t good enough for and live by the trans jord…

…wait the kanaima will save this story for the near future, there may be a sequel to the Holy S**t Boyd K Packer in the works marks…

I'm glad that missionaries aren't going to Switzerland, however, the argument they make is incorrect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2012 10:44AM by snb.

Whoa, hadn't heard about this news until now. Seriously? My Switzerland mission is kaput? Wow.

I was in Lausanne & Neuchatel & Geneva.

I gained weight there due to their superior dairy products and we also rode around in a Peugeot 404.

Life was good then.

I was in Vevey. Winery visits on P-Day (seriously), and Chateau de Chillon, and Leysin Ski Resort, and tried to find the Charlie Chaplin House, and the Nestle Chocolate Factory (but real Swiss chocolate). I cannot eat American chocolate or any other yogurt than Yoplait or American cheese from the time I spent in Switzerland and France. I have difficulty shopping for fruit because the fresh food markets had such amazingly good food. And baguettes, oh, baguettes.

Funniest part of my time in Switzerland: a rich investigator (the brother of a member in our branch) asked my companion and I to become his wives. Ha... ha... ha... yeah, that was hilarious. He was from Algeria. From that point on until the end of our missions, that companion and I referred to each other as sister wives. Crazy.

So, they receive stipends and paid housing---which is what all upper level LDS leaders receive right now, in the US and elsewhere. Will that clear up the age-old question for most Mos, of whether or not their LDS church leaders are prophets, or are likewise simply paid employees of the church?

I wonder if the Mormons banned chocolate and watches in retaliation.

"The Swiss government allows for the American missionary numbers to phase out from 80 in 2010, 50 in 2011, and none in 2012. The ruling applies to other religions as well."

One way to get around this would be to quietly ask some richer families to pay full freight for missionaries going to Switzerland like the old system. I imagine that the cost would be substantially higher than the average, especially because the franc is in demand these days.

so much for Swiss stake!
:)