There have been a number of posts about doctrine. Questions about is this doctrine or is this just tradition. I wanted to make a broader point about this without hijacking any threads. In my view the move to the center has forced the Mormon church to abandon many of their past doctrines. It wasn’t started with GBH, but it was given a face when GBH said. "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

Many of us have rightly said that many Mormons don’t believe these past doctrines, many have bought into the idea that God’s chosen mouthpiece is capable of both speaking nonsense and speaking for God, sometimes even in the same address. I urge us to not accept their arrogant excuses for why such and such isn't doctrine but really just conjecture. These esoteric and easily disproved doctrines are essential to Mormon theology.

It doesn't really matter how stupid the doctrine, or how many don’t believe it. Without these doctrines that are so silly to us the Mormon church cannot claim to be the One True Chruch.

good point(s).

Has Mormonism 'always' been cafeteria style, even tho they'll Never admit it?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Most Mormons can and do dismiss their doctrine. There are few people who are really true believing Mormons who would accept everything they hear. In that group there are even fewer who are TBMs, but go on to study all of the older doctrines that are no longer believed.

Mormons are like any group of people in that some are true fanatics but most are in between believing in Mormonism and their own version of jack Mormonism. Most other religions are like this as well. All but the most believing of this group dismiss the doctrine.

Because of this, I feel comfortable dismissing it as well. I don't hold them to any of the weird standards that Mormonism asks of their members because 1) I don't believe in it 2) they don't believe in it and 3) it is fake.

We need to look at this realistically. Mormonism is false. Mormon doctrine is false and sometimes weird. There is no prophet and the existence of god is highly doubtful. When we approach this situation from this perspective, then it seems unreasonable to hold anybody to a doctrine that is both fake, odd, and not believed anyways.

"Without these doctrines that are so silly to us the Mormon church cannot claim to be the One True Chruch."

Anybody can claim anything they want. The truth is that Mormonism is false, no matter what people claim or believe. Why hold them to the standard that it is true?

What I mean is just because they have reasons for dismissing their doctrine doesn't mean that we should accept their reasons. I feel that we must hold them to their own ideals. I am not talking about accepting everything they hear, but it essential to Mormon Doctrine that God was once a man. It is essential to Mormon doctrine that Adam lived on the earth 6000 years ago, and that Adam was the very first man. There are many things that must be part of Mormon doctrine for Mormonism, yet Mormons get away with saying it is just conjecture, and they were speaking as prophet. Hold Mormons to a high standard and don't let them get away with their dismissal of their past.

I agree that we should point it out and keep documentation about those beliefs. If they try to dismiss that it ever happened, I would have a problem with that too.

However, if someone decides to stop believing that Adam was the first man or that the earth is 6,000 years old I'm inclined to give them a high five. I won't be expecting them to believe in the doctrine just because it is essential to the religion they claim to be part of.

One True Church is one of the core four issues that allowed me to identify the fraud in a TBM world without the Internet.

One True (and everlasting) Church is easily disproven, for the life of me I don't know why this is not universally seen by TBMers, even the most devout. The only compassionate reason I can give them is an understandable desire to feel special in spite of all the evidence to the contrary that they are not special.

God must love these people a lot to have chosen them to be privileged enough to be born into His One True Church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2012 06:27PM by gentlestrength.

I agree with Jacob.

JS started painting TSCC into a corner when he taught that there's only One True Church, that it's doctrine is likewise true, eternal, and unchangeable, and that a person MUST know the true doctrine to be saved/exalted.

Then, he and all the leaders since have declared various crazy things as true, unalterable doctrine and revelation from God.

Now, they want to back off and pretend those things WEREN'T taught as doctrine and revelation, or that they were never taught at all and it was all just folklore and conjecture, or leaders speaking as men?

I don't think so. They set up a standard and said it could never, ever change. They need to stick to it.

There Are Universal Laws
There Are Manmade Laws
There Are Mormon Laws, which are forever morphing...

Point well made.

Isn't it ironic that nowadays if you want to remain Mormon you have to choose between the church and it's own doctrine. You must suspend belief rather than embrace it.

I never let them off the hook. If your prophet said it, you better damn well own it, or he can't be a prophet. Period.

They beat the membership over the head with crap like "only one
earring per ear for women, none for men" and then say, "the
PROPHET said it, aren't you going to follow the PROPHET?"

Then you point out where Brigham Young said that GOD revealed
something to him and it doesn't matter. He was just expressing
an opinion. Prophets aren't perfect yadda yadda.

Ask them what would be an example of a belief "tradition" that is followed today within the Church that isn't doctrinal and you don't have to obey it?

I wish , just for once, that someone could tell me some actual mormon doctrine.

Anything else is subject to change whenever.

Agreed. They'll say and change anything.