What to do when you believe your authentic life is in conflict with the one you are currently living (as a by-product of Church membership)BUT you are loathe to hurt anyone (i.e., your spouse) as a result of pursuing what you believe to be your authentic life?

Possible conflicts include:

Career choices potentially incompatible with marriage/TBM life plan?

Sexuality (too many potential conflicts to expound on here!)?

Family life (i.e., number of kids to have, or whether or not to have any kids at all)?

Please lend your insight into these and other problems.

I'm not prepared to devastate anyone. At the same time, I'm frustrated that my authentic life was potentially derailed before I ever had a chance to embark on it... I don't just want to live with this, either.

Thank you in advance!

I live an authentic life of the mind, being a free thinker now. I have associations both on the net and in person with others of like beliefs. However, I have to make concessions exactly as you said: I avoid being blatant about it to family and TBM associates. I dont' feel that I have compromised. Being accommodationist in this way is part of getting along with others.

Been there done that. Eventually it got to the point that I figured continuing to live an unauthentic life was untenable:

- The internal stress was too much.

- The sense that my marriage was based on false pretenses; I couldn't deal with that being unauthentic anymore and was prepared for it to fail rather than continue that way.

- I was concerned not being truthful would later be harmful to be kids - for example waht

- The constant church resource drain was significant. There's the 3 hours & the tithing, but there is so much more. Always worried about magnifying your calling, getting to the temple, getting home teaching done, etc. etc.

- There was a constant stress of my wife nagging me for not being pious enough when it was because I didn't believe. It was hard to be motivated to do all that stuff you have to do to be pious enough.

Eventually I decided it just wasn't worth it anymore and come what may it was better than that. I was right.

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I am answering that above for a "coming out of the closet perspective"

Another possible meaning is do whatever the hell I want because that is what I authentically want to do. I don't see that as being authentic. An authentic life includes taking into consideration the impact on yourself and others - otherwise you are not being authentic.

So for example if you feel your "authentic life" includes an open marriage to be true to yourself that may not be authentic.

I can't tell if you are talking about avoiding being a hypocrite pretending to believe or if you are talking about not living in a way you don't want to. Which is it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2012 03:57PM by bc.

In re-reading your thread I'm still having a very hard time guessing what your situation is and thus know what to say.

Where you haven't had kids yet, you should definitely take a step back and figure things out. Depending on what is going on staying married to your wife is not doing her any favors if it is under false pretenses and not what you want. Whatever is going on it seems like you are much more likely to cause a lot more harm to her down the road if you don't deal with it, than dealing with it now.

Interesting... No one-size-fits all solution, I guess. I suppose that in some respects we have to be really certain of ourselves before we make choices that really will have irrevocable consequences. By the same token, we need to be prepared to hurt some people we love, I guess :(

Are you gay?

Is that the "authenticity" you are seeking?

You're totally anon in this thread, so if you want to elaborate on your dilemma, nobody will know it's "you." If we have more information, maybe we can better help you?

Or not . . . .

;o)

You aren’t talking about “Landmark Forum” type speak are you? If you are you might want to look up Rick Ross or take a look at this http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1243&Itemid=12url

As far as what you've all said so far, you aren't missing the mark and many of the things you are saying are resonating. All perspective is welcome.

FYI, I'm not gay :) (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

However, my perceptions of and attitudes about sexuality are a little different than what I once espoused. I'm referring to a lot of potential conflicts in this area including erotica/pornography, an open or semi-open relationship (read: threesomes), etc. Is this just a reaction to early sexual suppression/oppression? These things are tremendously appealing to me right now but I'm not going to pursue them without a consensus in my marriage. At the same time, consensus is unlikely, so... I'm a little frustrated.

As for career: I'm interested in the military. Spouse is not. Other family is not. I've always been interested in it and put it on the shelf for several reasons (not the least of which is what I perceived to be conflicts with family life etc.--at least the kind of family life my spouse wants--to include having kids etc.).

As far as kids are concerned, we don't have any yet but I'm growing increasingly less interested (on the one hand I want to do things differently with my kids, b/c I feel like I was so screwed up by the Church/poor parenting)--on the other hand, I don't really have a sincere interest right now. Maybe later. Maybe much later. This is not what my spouse wants to hear...

As far as the career stuff goes, I'm more committed to just going through with my real interests (even if my particular Special Forces ambitions fail and I'm stuck in the military for a few years postponing other career opportunities).

I'm actually really ticked about the whole career thing, b/c my missionary service kind of precluded certain opportunities in the military (which I have worked hard to open up again after several years). So... Damn, what I wouldn't give to go back in time and do that all over again.

Anyway, does this paint a more clear picture?

I feel more genuinely moral, but that isn't to say that I wouldn't embrace certain things which to not meet with TBM approval and that some of my feelings haven't changed. Does that make sense? I have different ideas about family, raising kids (and whether or not I really want to...), etc. I don't feel like the same person I was when I married my spouse, in some respects (some important ones, too). What do I do with those feelings and how to I pursue an authentic life without ruining someone else's experience? Aargh...

Thanks again, folks. Feel free to probe with additional specific questions if you desire. I'm happy to be open about things in order to approach solutions.

So it seems clear, but just to make sure: (I also think I'm remembering another post or two by you - or if not you, it was someone else recently who had a very similar question.)

You are a non believer but your wife still believes, right?

Assuming this is correct what is your wife's response to your not believing?

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It kind of seems like the fundamental question you need to answer is do you want to stay married? Maybe your initial reaction is "of course I do", but this is something you really need to come to terms with. If you have this firmly answered a number of your other questions disappear - e.g. a firm commitment to monogomy.

Realistically marriage = monogamy 99% of the time. That doesn't usually change when people leave the church. There are a lot of atheists on this board, and the vast majority of us equate marriage with monogamy. Certainly wanting to change the rules after marriage and being frustrated your spouse doesn't want to is less than fair - most often an open marriage reeks havoc on relationships even when both parties are completely on board. If you want to sleep around you need to end your marriage.

Porn is a much trickier subject. However, if it is going to be hurtful to your wife and harm your relationship it's still going to be problematic. Thus one is frustrating because it's largely your wife's Mormon background that may turn this from a molehill into a mountain. Again though, you have to balance the relationship against your wants and what can work. Porn will almost certainly create a huge rift in your marriage over time with a TBM wife. Is it worth it? If it is, does it just make more sense to end your marriage. So in your marriage I would argue that porn is immoral assuming your wife would react to it the way I anticipate she would.

I guess as I've gotten older I've gotten less and less impressed with "being in love" as a great factor for getting and even staying married. If other things are in place the love will grow and if they aren't it will diminish.

You have changed since being married. Also, very likely your wife married a Peter Priesthood role that you can't fulfill. Where you don't have kids yet, you have a lot more options. Does it really make sense to partner to raise kids together in your current circumstance? Does it make sense to prevent your wife for being able to move forward and raise kids with someone in a role that she wants and you can never fulfill?

I don't know nearly enough about your marriage to be able to give any advice on whether you should stay married or not, but it certainly seems like there are some significant issues to think through in making that decision.

Pursuing the career you are interested in seems like a no brainer. But again where your wife and you are so far apart, again it means asking some hard questions and honestly answering them.

You are living one life, if U don't like it you are going to have change it.

If you live your life trying to please everyone then nobody is happy because you CAN'T please everyone. You will either hurt others or hurt yourself. Choose wisely.

From my experience, true friends will accept your decision to live authentically and those who don't really aren't much of a friend anyway.

In the end, you are the only person who will be with you your entire life.

No one ever lives a fully authentic life. Even without the cult derailing the life we would have liked to live, social, cultural, and economic forces always corner us into necessary but unsatisfying pathways that we wouldn't choose for ourselves. Fully authentic living would require revolt against all social norms. Jean Paul Sartre advocated total authenticity, but he was rightly criticized for this, because, practically speaking, one would have to become a terrorist to live a totally authentic life.

The best anyone can do is to decide what is most important, and pursue that with passion. For me, it's running. For others, it's creative pursuits, or leisure, or work, or their children. But it doesn't really matter. The point is to carve out a small space of freedom for yourself, understanding that in the end, none of it really matters anyway. The existentialists refer to this problem as the "absurd" life. (See The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus for an excellent discussion of living with the absurdity of life, and why life's inherent meaninglessness does not require suicide).

We can be happy by clearing that small space, and working to enjoy it, and maybe even clear other small spaces along the way. It seems horribly unfair that the cult has closed so many doors to us. I live with many such regrets on a daily basis. But doors would have been closed by our culture regardless. We can choose to live consciously going forward, and find satisfaction.

Sounds like you're pretty young. When it comes to career, my advice is do NOT wait. Opportunities, as you well know based on what you said regarding your mission, are fleeting and when you miss them they often never return. When it comes to porn, do your thing man. We all have our needs but you just can't let it get out of hand. It serves a purpose but can develop into a huge problem if it becomes too big a part of your life. As far as an open relationship, my advice (and some may disagree) is do NOT purse it. No matter what anyone says an open relationships will ALWAYS lead to trust issues and will destroy the relationship. You say you've been sexually repressed (most of us were) and this is most likely why it interests you. It is a dead end. As far as kids go, if you don't think you want them right now then DON'T have them. Don't even consider it. You will wish you didn't when you're up all night with a screaming baby and then driving them around everywhere instead of pursuing your career goals. Furthermore, most guys will tell you that sex is at least reduced after kids come along. I don't think I've ever met someone who was unsure about having kids and then was happy they did after the kids were born. There are a lot of poeple who lie and say "my kids are the greatest thing in the world" but the truth is they suck the life out of you and you should wait until you've done what you want to do before having any. I love my son but I gave up more than someone should have to to raise him.

The biggest thing you'll want to do is TELL YOUR SPOUSE. That part sucks but you have to do it. If it were me and if you haven't done this already, I would ease into it and start the conversation by letting them know what you're thinking about. Maybe start with your career aspirations. Don't start by saying you need more sex and that someone you met on craigslist is coming by in 10 minutes for a 3-way. Sorry, had to throw that in there :). Honesty and communication with the other person is the only way to reach resolution. If your spouse truly loves you then they will at least look for compromise. If your spouse gets angry and defensive, threatens divorce, talks to the Bishop or other family, starts bearing testimony, etc. GET THE F$%& OUT. That's not to say that they will never come around but remember life is too short. There are some stories on here about people who eventually convinced their spouse to move in their direction but most are about guys with TBM spouses who barely tolerate them hoping they'll regain their testimony or just outright divorced them.

This is just advice from a guy "who's seen the good side of down and the bad side of up and everything between" to quote a song from Everlast. Good luck bro.

Thanks, folks.

Mmm... good perspective here. I have a lot to think about and a lot to talk to my spouse about. I appreciate this board for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is an opportunity to divest myself of some of these thoughts etc. in a non-judgmental/anonymous forum (I take the anonymous part with a grain of salt, because you never know!).

Agreed. Time to talk to my spouse about things and make sure we are headed in a compatible direction (if not the same one...).

I'm going to pursue the career opportunities finally available to me, b/c I know I will regret it if I don't.

As for the kids--like I said, time to talk to my spouse about things. Maybe solutions are more readily available than I think (and maybe what I think is authentic to me is not necessarily crucial or whatever, or is just passing). We'll see.

Gracias, RfM'ers!