Ok so I am on my mission right now in Colorado (I wont say any more than that because I could REALLY be in trouble). I woke up early to write this since everyone is asleep and wont notice. I have learned some terrible stuff over the past few months and dont think I believe in Mormonism anymore. My companion is a pretty hard core believer and he has noticed a change in me. I just cant bring myself to teach something that I meself dont think I belive in. We are living with a very devout family (the dad is 1 counselor) and if he knew I was on their computer i would be screwed. I like being on a mission now just for the fun of it. I actually learned all of this stuff because we visited an inactive guy (hes a cop) who told us why he doesnt believe anymore when we asked him to come to church. Now I dont know what I believe. But from reading this blog I think it is like 85% sure that the church is a hoax. I think you guys are the real missionaries. Have there ever been any other missionaries that have posted on here while they were serving? I hope so or I will feel really bad.

I visit here and lurk, but rarely post anymore. I have been out for a while. On my mission I hit that wall....I chose to put my head down and work. Oddly enough, when I quit thinking about whether it was true or not, was when I was made ZL.
Not sure what to tell you other than maybe plot a course to get out. Some go with a blaze, others quietly. All depends on your personality and situation.
I will tell you this: on paper my life is no better or worse since leaving the church, but looking in the mirror everyday and knowing I am being true to myself is worth any price.
Good luck.

+1

I would have loved to have known the truth at your age. This cult took some of the best years of my life.

Here are some good sites:

MormonThink
http://mormonthink.com

Rethinking Mormonism
http://i4m.com

Richard Packham's Home Page
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/

MormonLeaks
http://mormonleaks.com

That'll only be the history of your visit here and possibly a cookie or two (the old site used to have cookies that "ate" themselves). The proprietor of this site is really sensitive to people in situations like yours.

Feel free to visit here from a library or some such (just sign out afterwards if you're logged in).

Sharing your doubts with those around you at this point will serve no purpose. I'm not aware of any mishies who've posted here while serving, but nobody has read everything and I could be wrong. We did have a lovely fellow, a friend of mine, who kept his home as a "safe house" for missionaries to discuss subjects they couldn't bring up with anyone else.

His house wound up "off limits," alas... I understand a number of his contacts left the church later...

Go slow; you're young and you have the rest of your life ahead of you...

A little over a decade ago we had a guy who goes by the handle SLDrone posting here while he was in his mission as Mission President. He didn't last long as a Mp as he wisely got out. what you need to do IMO is get the email address of Susan I/s at the top, setup a Private email address (ie nOT the one your MP reads), and ask her to send you a bunch of email addresses and phones of people you can contact for help. IMO you won't make it 3 months more on your mission and you will look back glad that you had the courage to break free. Good luck.

Empower yourself.

If you need assistance, email Susan AdMin of this website- She will know who you can safely contact for assistance. Here is her email: Susan I/S at ExMoLight@gmail.com

If you get the opportunity, secure any money you can, such as the debit card mentioned by others. If your companion sticks to you like glue, I can see that might be difficult.

On the morning of Jan 2, when public places are open & cops are not as busy, gather up your things and just walk out the door. If any personal documents, such as your driver's license, are being held by someone else, go to the police station and ask for assitance in getting them back.

After you walk out, go to the library for free access to the internet (they probably will ask you to get a library card & for this you need ID-if you do not have ID explain your situation to the librarian) and work through Susan for assistance. Many other's on this Board will provide support as well.

You are not alone.

This is an amazing post. Can you really hear yourself?

"(I wont say any more than that because I could REALLY be in trouble)."
"I woke up early to write this since everyone is asleep and wont notice."
"My companion is a pretty hard core believer and he has noticed a change in me."
"We are living with a very devout family (the dad is 1 counselor) and if he knew I was on their computer i would be screwed."
"Have there ever been any other missionaries that have posted on here while they were serving? I hope so or I will feel really bad."

These statements sound like they're from a prisoner of war, a person in a concentration camp, or a jailed felon. You're an adult, performing a VOLUNTARY service for a corporation, and - most likely - you are PAYING for the privilege of doing this 'service work.'

You're a friggin' adult; act like one. You're not a sniveling child who has to be scared of everything you do, say, or even think.

"I have learned some terrible stuff over the past few months and dont think I believe in Mormonism anymore."
"I just cant bring myself to teach something that I meself dont think I belive in."
"I like being on a mission now just for the fun of it."

These are adult-like statements. If they're true, then live up to them. If you want to stay on the mission, then continue to do whatever you enjoy about it, and decline/refuse to participate in the activities you no longer enjpy or want to do. What're they going to do? Torture you? Beat you? Not likely. Yell at you? Probably, but then you react as any adult would react when they are yelled at - respond in ways that let them know that their behavior with you is inappropriate and unacceptable, and remove yourself from the situation where it is taking place.

They only have authority over you by your permission. Remove that permission, and whatever they say has no effect on you. If they then want to 'send you home' then that's the way it is - it's their dime for the flight. But always remember that you can leave anytime you want. You're a free person (slavery was outlawed over 150 years ago) and an adult. You can make your own decisions. Act on YOUR decisions - not theirs.

it happens.

but great, sane post.

Good point. You are an adult, and deserve to be treated like one. If you are in a situation will you will not be treated like one, then that is a harmful rather then a positive situation.

Then again, you are stuck in a cult. Just remember this magical phrase to use when anyone tries to guilt you, "Your Jedi mind tricks have no power on me boy." When asked to explain, tell them they are trying to manipulate you through guilt, and you have nothing to be guilty about.

Another good way to get sent home, find a nice young girl, and do something really shameful in public with her like hold hands, or maybe even lightly kiss.

Then when confronted by the MP, admit that was all you did with her, it wasn't like the last time a few weeks ago, when you had sex in a car with some woman you arranged to meet outside your apartment, while your companion was asleep. You know lie.

This is mostly a joke, but the truth is, who cares if you get sent home dishonorably from your mission? It's not like the military where the record can follow you the rest of your life, and even prevent you from getting certain government jobs.

Also, Colorado may not really be all that far from where you live. If you like it so much, it may be a great place to drop roots. Find a job, a place to stay, and enroll in a local college, either right away, or once you set up residency. If you have kept some of the envelopes your mail comes in from over the course of your mission, you may even be able to set up in state residency now, provided the postal marks prove you have been living there a year.

I'd also add that he is an adult and needs to act like one. The OP needs to take charge of his situation and realize that only he controls his own destiny. yada, yada, yada.

Anonymous, I don't know if you are the first active missionary to post concerns on here, I have not been posting or reading here long. Don't feel bad either way. You are finding your way, you are in a herd mentality and beginning to think for yourself and respond to the information you are getting from the world. Just because the herd responds differently than you does not make you wrong. Perhaps you are the enlightened one. Johnathon Livingston Seagull comes to my mind, you are growing, listening, and learning.

“You have the freedom to be yourself, your true self, here and now, and nothing can stand in your way".”
― Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagull

I think of how deceived you and I have been by Church leaders, historians, and family who know the true history of the Mormon church and then we were called and ultimately ordered to share their whitewashed fraud of a version of the First Vision and the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham.

I can say take your time, I can say get out now, both are options, but the truth remains. You have been deceived by these people who claim to rule over you. Is this your life? You get the credit for your sins and shortcomings, they take credit for your successes and growth. Own them both as of today and find your way.

By the way, their brainwashing to make it so that you have to sheepishly move around in the night like a thief. All the evidence you need to know what do. It's your life.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2012 08:13AM by gentlestrength.

Dear Struggling Missionary...

There have been a few currently serving missionaries here over the years. A few years ago, I recall one .. who was "serving" in the midwest I believe. As I recall, he ended up leaving his mission early.

But what you are doing is rare. I admire you and your courage. Many of us here have served full time missions, and left the church later in life. I agree, it's so much better to figure this out now, at your stage, before you marry an active believer and have your family torn apart.

Go with your conscience. Depending upon how much longer you have you may just want to stick it out. It's really your choice. You are not in a pleasant situation. If we can be of moral support to you.. here on the board.. we of course will be. Keep us informed.

I'm guessing that with the increase in the number of missionaries, and the increase in Internet use, and the increase in the amount of REAL truth about the LD$ church available..... we'll be seeing a lot more currently "serving" missionaries here.

Hope so.

when you visit this website from a computer you are not supposed to be using. Browsers like Internet Explorer and Firefox normally maintain a history of all websites visited in "history" files. If the computer owner is knowledgeable he could easily figure out that you came here.

With Firefox (the browser I use) I can choose to use "private browsing" and then no history will be maintained. You REALLY need to do that when you visit this website or any sites which tell the real truth about the CoJCoLDS.

On the subject of your status as a non-believing missionary, my best guess is that you will find it very difficult to teach/preach "the Gospel" to investigators when you don't believe it yourself. You would be lying to the investigator and you have to ask yourself if your conscience allows you to do that.

If you go to a public library and do further study of Mormonism (using the links supplied by "atheist&happy"), it won't take you long to become 99.999% sure that the Mormon Church is a scam. At that point it may become extremely difficult for you to continue your mission. If that happens then you would need to do some serious thinking about going home early and how that would affect your life. Getting out of the fraudulent Mormon church is definitely the right thing to do when you learn the truth, but doing so could create some significant problems, depending on your situation. That means you need to think through the whole process and be ready to deal with the problems that will surely erupt when you quit the mission and the CoJCoLDS.

My husband and I left the church last summer, he three weeks earlier than I. The rumors abounded in our ward, that he was cheating on me, that we were getting divorced, and many others. Nothing could be further from the truth; we are happier than ever before. Just be prepared that everyone will gossip about why you came home.

I think staying on a mission would be unbearable after discovering the truth. You certainly can't do the work you are expected to do. Brace yourself, hold your head high, in spite of the unchristlike example you will likely see all around you. You've done nothing wrong except to find the truth that the church hopes no one will find.

and there was one who received his call and had to tell his family he wasn't a believer anymore so he wasn't going. I think it was a couple years ago one missionary posted here after being out for only a few days and packed up and went home.

As far as SLDrone, I don't remember him posting here while he was on his mission, but I do remember him coming here after he returned to SLC, and after he met with Hinckley and was asked to not discuss his disbelief with his former missionaries. Maybe he or one of his friends can clear this up, but I don't remember him posting while being MP.

No matter what you believe or disbelieve about Mormonism, no matter how strong or nonexistent your testimony might be, YOU ARE A VOLUNTEER paying your own way. The church does not own you. You owe the church nothing. You do not need to seek permission from them. They might try to shame, scare or coerce you, but those are just the tools of people who have no real power.

If your heart and intentions are pure, then a just God would not condemn you.

But there's the family thing, right? It's hard disappointing the ones you love. That's probably the biggest reason people gather here at RFM. Parents, siblings, spouses, children, all in various degrees and forms of distress because of our disbelief. It's the biggest reason there are disbelievers in the pews -- and even at the pulpit -- every Sunday.

Hey Elder A,
I am in Colorado Springs.
If you need a ride to the airport, or anything else, and I am close enough to where u r to be of help, my email is prettyinpain5@gmail.com

Best wishes.

I don't really have much to add other than I wish you luck.

You are not alone and have no reason to feel bad. Hang in there, have fun and if things get hard, you'll be home soon. It may seem like forever at times, but it goes faster than you think. And, if you want, you really can go home at anytime, it won't ruin your life, it won't destroy your future and may do the opposite and be the better choice.

If you want to go home, and you don't want to confront anyone you can pull all the money out of your church debit card, then get to a greyhound bus station, and buy a ticket. Or you can confront the Mission President, and insist on going home, in which case, you pull all of your money out of your church debit card first, because the first thing Churchco will do either way is shut down your Zion's Bank account in order to protect their sacred money. Either way, claim you spent all of it on church related stuff if asked. Either way, their claims about the money being sacred is BS.

Rather you go home on your own, or through official channels you will need the money to travel, and to set your life up when you get home.

If I were in that position, I would just leave. Go home. Go to San Diego and enjoy the beach. Lose the garmies and the scriptures and have fun. Get drunk. Get laid. Then go to school and do something that you enjoy with your life. Read MormonThink and get the truth. These posts are written by Mormons, not antis that the cult would have you believe.

You are not a prisoner and you owe them nothing. You don't even have to tell them that you are leaving. Just disappear.

Enjoy life.

Marshall
Former Mo. Former mish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2012 10:27AM by No Mo.

Good luck in your situation - all I can suggest is read your scriptures - there is plenty just in those to disprove the church:

1) Book of Mormon - the big whammy - there are so many things that are obviously made up. Joseph Smith was clearly very sloppy - especially with the lost 116 page transition - try adding up the ages of Jacob, Enos, Jarom, Omni, etc.

2) D&C it's pretty clear Joseph Smith was just a bumbling regular man making mistake after mistake.

3) Old Testament - the laws of God are truly barbaric.

4) New Testament - you have to look a little harder but the God of the New Testament isn't a whole lot better.

Keep your eyes open and you will get from 85% to 100%.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2012 10:31AM by bc.

This is really great advice for someone in this position.

I have been around this board over 10 years and remember a couple of guys coming here who were on their missions. A few years ago I was in Utah in the summer and attended a post-mormon picnic and met a guy who had just come home from his mission early after finding out the truth while he was serving. It was fascinating talking to him, but he was going through a lot. His family could not process it at all. But EVERYONE was assuring him that he had done the right thing and telling him how lucky he was. So many of us wish we had figured it out at your age before having to deal with mormon marriages and kids. And as Stray Mutt says, it's the reason there are so many nonbelievers in the pews. You'd be surprised how many people you would never suspect are still hanging in there as total nonbelievers.

Mormonism is so much just like the story of the Emporor's New Clothes. Once you really see that the emporor is naked, you cannot make yourself see him with clothes on, no matter how hard you try. You can pretend and go along with the crowd and say you can see his fine silk robes. But you still see nakedness. I feel so badly for you that I almost wish I could tell you that there's some truth or some good in the Mormon church and it wouldn't hurt to try to keep believing. But unfortunately, there isn't. It is a hoax and has been from the very beginning. Once you open your mind it doesn't take long to see it, and easily see it. All the things that never made sense to you before finally do. It's easy to see where it came from and it's easy to see how it evolved into what it is today.

Just remember that the people who would look down on you, feel sorry for you, or be afraid for your salvation are like those people who really have convinced themselves that they see an Emporor with rich purple silk and velvet robes. They are deluded and they frankly are not very smart. Many of us were there for many years also. THEY are the ones who need someone to feel sorry for them. No matter how smug they are thinking they will "get the last laugh" in the afterlife when you are cast down to outer darkness, it just isn't so. You want to smack them at times and tell them that you won't let a stupid person treat you like that, but you don't. You know there's no use. But on the same note, do not let your life be dictated by what brainwashed, arrogant people think. They are not worth it. When you get past worrying about what other people think, no matter how closely related to you they are, because you realize you have one amazing life to live and you're not going to waste another minute of it because of them, it just becomes very unimportant. Let them spend their whole one life that we know we have, running on the Mormon hamster wheel. You make your decisions about your life and in the long run you will be much happier than if you'd made bad decisions solely on the basis of other people's expectations.

+ 1,000,000

Hello and welcome from a fellow Coloradan. An elder from my MTC district was having difficulties with the veracity of the church at the beginning of his mission in France. He told those of us in his district, his companion, his mission president, his parents, and he went home. All has been well in his life.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

Since you're in Colorado just get a one-way rental car and drive home. BETTER YET, drive wherever you want and start living life on your terms. Let your family know where you're at and make the decision to become your own man. I cut the cord when I was 18 and it was extremely difficult. I worked 2-3 jobs the entire time I was in college and had a child to raise at the same time. Looking back, it was the best decision I ever made. The church is garbage, even most of the hard-core members are now aware of that but they cling due to family or guilt or whatever.

Don't spend the rest of your mission being a scared little kid. Make your own choices and you won't have to live with regret.

First, except in NY and Michigan, where it's required by law, few companies are willing to rent cars to people younger than 25. If they will, they'll usually charge extra high rates. Also, they'll want a credit card so they can bill you if anything goes wrong.

Point is, just leave rather than whither in doubt. Oh, and hertz rents to 20 year olds without any extra fee. :)

Um, no they don't. You have to be 25 to rent the car but an additional driver can be as young as 20 with an additional fee. I just rented a car two weeks ago.

Don't you just have to say FU to the MP to get a free plane ticket home?

I know someone who snuck out of his mission in PR to return home.

I don't think fleeing is the best option, but it is an option. I would just tell the MP you don't believe and go home. He will try to talk you out of it, but eventually he would rather have you home than nonbelieving in the mission.

If he keeps you, then he knows that he has someone not under his power in the mission, and that's dangerous for him.

When you are able, would you be willing to write a letter or e-mail my son who is on a mission in South America? If he does not come home I would really like him to hear another missionary's story. You can contact me at gardener.organic12@gmail.com If he does come home you two could support each other during the transition from the LDS church.

You can certainly e-mail me if you have other questions, too.

I was in your same situation on my mission in the 70's. I didn't believe any of it, but I stayed because leaving would have meant failure and staying meant success. Staying was the worst mistake of my life. It took a lot of therapy to "fix" what that organization did to my brain. One thing that came out in therapy is that I ended up working in jobs I hated, making good money but "success" meant suffering and hating what I did, in my screwed up mind.

Everybody's situation is different. But for me I wish I would have just got on a plane and got the hell outta Dodge.

Good luck. There is nothing to be ashamed of for having doubts. If you do go home just tell family and friends that you couldn't tell people that the church was true when you didn't feel it was. End of discussion! If you like being on a mission for the "fun" of it, then stay and put on the happy, fake smile. You might develop a new talent and become a famous actor someday :)

I was engaged to an RM and on the brink of converting...I had been "investigating" Mormonism for quite some time and while I had my suspicions all along the damn broke shortly after my engagement-TBM RM fiance were married even though I had not converted and a few short years later DH converted to Christianity.....Mormonism was NOT what it claimed to be and this could be proved on a number of levels.

You will be alright...continue to seek Truth and although most on this board are atheist...I encourage you to not let go of God and His Son.

Seek the God of the Bible and you will find Truth.

You've just had a missionary lesson.

Please just focus on getting yourself taken care of, if that includes doing what others have requested you do for them, make sure that's what is best for you at this time.

I imagine you are under great stressors. You are in a forum where a lot of people have experienced similar stress or are sympathetic to your situation. Wish you the best, love yourself enough to take care of yourself as best you can. It's your life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2012 11:25AM by gentlestrength.

I went on my mission at the age of 21 about 16 months after converting. I started my mission wanting to do everything right and quickly learned that most of the missionaries were less than motivated. After a year of struggling to get along with companions that I considered to be "kickers", I finally gave up on doing the mission the way it is spelled out in the handbook. I actually had fun and the second year went by much faster. I never questioned the truth of the church at that time, but years later, looking back, I am shocked at how naive I was to miss the message in that whole experience.

On one occasion, I added up all of the money I had available and thought it would be enough to get home if I stole the mission car. If I was in the same position as you are, figuring out the truth while on a mission, I may have just done it!

1) What have you learned that disturbs you so much?

2) How would your family react if you went home now? Are you willing to live with that?

If you have a long time left (more than 6 months), you might want to suck it up and go home. You can fake it for a few months, but it will eat away at you.

You are going to have to confront your family at some point if you leave the church. Do you want to do it now, when you get home, or after you finish college?

OP I also wish I had found out about the church sooner. I wpuld have done things a lot differently with my life. The only reason I clung to the church for so long is that I really believed it was true.

I know it is kind of scary being where you are and you probably feel pretty powerless. Remember though, ultimately YOU are in charge. Don't let a bunch of phonies run your life and wield power over you. Let them threaten you in the name of their powerless god for all the good it will do them. You might need to take some time to become confident in your new beliefs, but stand up for yourself and don't let them push you around.

I don't know what your home situation is like but I would say get out of your mission and go home. If home doesn't work so well now, get in contact with the board admins. I am sure there are plenty of people on here that would be willing to help out. We've pretty much all been in a similar place emotionally as you. Don't worry, it gets better and you'll soon realize how much better life can really be!

If you go home---and I would---it needs to be done with your head held high in resolve. No apologies. Make sure everyone knows it was carefully considered and that it comes from a place deep within that requires you to be true to yourself.

You owe no one an explanation beyond, 'I do not believe it'. Save anything more until you have had a chance to digest it yourself. Give nothing more than your name rank and serial number.

You should not be indoctrinating anyone into a cult. There is no shame in having been fooled. There is great shame in fooling others if you actually know that is what you are doing.

If you stay, you must wear your honesty on your sleeve. You must bring up the unanswerable questions that are supposed to be left for the next life. And if you teach a lesson I would do a lot of winking at the victim throughout.

You are very lucky to have found RFM so young. I wish there had been one when I was your age. It is almost shocking to be in a place like this where facts and opinions are welcome after a life time of living in that cookie cutter church that only makes vanilla wafers.

"There is no shame in having been fooled. There is great shame in fooling others if you actually know that is what you are doing."

I completely agree. It would be hugely irresponsible to "stick it out" knowing what you're teaching is untrue. There is nothing honorable about that whatsoever in my opinion.

There seem to be quite a few posters here telling you to drop everything and go home. However, I seriously doubt any (or very many of them) did that themselves.

Unless you have parents and a family who would welcome and support you coming home early from your mission, you might want to think long and hard before taking that leap. Although noble and self-satisfying to walk away, what will you face when you get home? If you can't live at home, where will you go? Do you have a job lined up? A car or other transportation? Huge savings account? Supportive friends? Money to go to school? These are all things you should consider because once you stop your mission, you have to start your life. Are you able to do that without the support (financial and otherwise) of your family and friends who might not be so approving of you coming off of your mission early?

When I walked off of my mission (left after five weeks in the MTC) I returned home to a family that basically shunned me. Every time I looked at them I could see the pain in their eyes that I caused. I was allowed to stay in the home as long as I continued to go to church. I had no money...everything I had saved before went into my mission. I was dependent on my parents, and they didn't care for me very much at the time. I wasn't allowed to use a family car. I scraped the last $500 I had, $400 of which had been given to me by my Bishop/Ward for a plane ticket to the MTC (which he wanted me to pay back), and bought a used motorcycle. With that, I was able to land a menial job working in a grocery store.

I stayed living at home and saved EVERY penny I could. After six months my father approached me and said, "I think it would be best for the family if you were to leave." My mother though, knowing that if I left she would never see me again, intervened and told my father I wasn't going anywhere. That caused even more friction in the house between them. A year later I had saved enough to move away and get back into school.

I don't regret walking out. It certainly wasn't an easy thing to do, and returning home opened up a whole new type of Hell for me. Consider and weigh out all of your options. What do you face at home if you leave your mission. You can do it. I did it. But unless you have a family who will greet you with open arms, expect to be be bashed, bruised, and kicked while you are down all along the way. It won't be easy. Definitely not as easy as those here advocating (who by the way, didn't walk off of THEIR missions) that you just walk off of yours.

My son is currently serving a mission in Mexico. I will not support him financially on his mission but I support him in every other way. If he were to walk off tomorrow, his mother (my TBM-ex) would not make him welcome in her home. I would wrap my arms around him and help him plan and reach his goals for the rest of his life. He knows he has a loving place to go if necessary.

Best of luck to you.

Congratulations for figuring things out. If you are 85% sure the church isn't true after the MTC brainwashing and being surrounded by the cult all day long then once you get away from it and have some time to study things out and think you will 110% sure. Definitely check out the website mormonthink.com as others have suggested. All the evidence you could ever need is on that site in very plain detail. I was having some doubts but when I read the article on the Book of Abraham on there that was the end of it for me. Your story makes me think I need to be more direct and open about my disbelief when missionaries come by. Planting seeds and all that you know.

If your family are all believers and they are paying for your mission it might be better to stay and finish your two years. It could cause a lot of drama to go home early and you may want to keep the option on the table of letting them know about your disbelief slowly. I can't imagine teaching the Joseph Smith story to anyone though now as a non-believer. It is just to crazy. So if you can't take it anymore just tell your mission president you want to go home. You are not required to give him a reason. You are a volunteer and can leave at any time. Sounds like with your current companion you have no choice but to keep working but maybe you will be lucky and get put with some slackers in the future and you can just have fun.

Let me just emphasize how lucky you are to have figured this out now. I wish an inactive had given me some cold hard facts on my mission but I was in a foreign country and most inactives didn't know anything about the church. It took me 5 years after my mission to figure things out. Be glad you will not have all that lost time.

Mr. Happy has given the BEST advice of all.

Please weigh his words carefully before you decide to do ANYTHING.

The Best To YOU .....