Came out to the one sibling that I thought would be receptive. Turns out he really couldn't care less. Never bothered to asked why I no longer believe. Don't people care about truth anymore? If any of my family members came out with news like that to me I would want to know what they had found out and if it was important info. I would be so curious. I guess while mommy and daddy are still paying the bills he prefers to remain comfortably numb and ignorant so the cash flow doesn't cease.

But they already know why. You were offended, lazy, sinful, or wanted to be sinful. Any or all. That's it. That is what they have been taught all their lives. The only reasons anyone ever turns their back on the one twu church.

I think what bothers me the most is that they don't even respect me enough to even listen to why. It would be one thing if they were to listen to why I came to the conclusions I did and disagree, but that they won't even listen really does hurt.

I recognize why the programming is so strong and why considering if the emporer has no clothes is so scary but still I wish they would have enough respect for me to really listen. A wish that will never come true I suppose.

In my experience, when I try to explain the reasons why, they have an answer for everything. Usually it involves having faith. However, my college education (yes even at BYU) taught me that in writing papers and making claims one should have evidence. Apparently I'm crazy for applying secular knowledge to religious knowledge. I just need to have faith, even if the facts don't add up.

I know exactly what you mean. This is why I'm so desperate to engage my family in a conversation about my departure from TSCC - it was a HUGE DEAL to me, and the fact that they don't care or want to talk about it feels hurts. I would care if they went through something difficult, even if it wasn't something I could personally relate to. It's so irritating.

+1

It's not that they do not want to hear so much as they are AFRAID to hear.

They don't want to know why. They are scared if the truth.

Isn't it just the flip side of when Mormons want to preach the gospel to others? Whether it is politics or religion, we all want to tell people our views. None of us want to listen to what other people have to say.

I would be more than happy to listen to what they have to say if it went both ways.

One of the problems though is that I've already experienced first hand everything they have to say. I understand their perspective perfectly because I lived from that perspective for many years. I would absolutely love to have an open conversation where we can both talk about why we see things the way we do. It would go a lot like - yes, I used to think that too, however...

My point is that you would not really be listening--you have made up your mind. You might listen to what they have to say, but you would not give it serious consideration. You would just be waiting your turn to talk. You want to tell them what you think, not hear what they have to say. Just like everybody else.

I'm not criticizing you for that. That's the way we all are. In politics. In religion. In sports. We have made our choice, and we just want to hear from people who think the same way we do, not from the other side. Yes, it is frustrating that our Mormon families do not want to hear why we leave the Church. But that has more to do with the fact that they are human than the fact that they are Mormon.

I think it has to do with the fact they are in a cult, worried about associating with an outcast, and lack the curiosity and sincerity to have relationships with people that are different than they are. Thus, they stay in a cult with their hands over their eyes thinking it makes us go away. We're still here. We see them. They don't see us.

You don't know me very well, but I actually have the ability to listen to and seriously consider other people's points even when I disagree.

However, with Mormonism yes it's a challenge because I've already been down that road - way down that road. Very few of them have had as deep as spiritual experiences, read as much about the religion (e.g. I've read the BoM more than 50 times), or tried as hard as I did to keep believing. It's difficult to have a two way give and take conversation when one person has all of the information the other person has plus so much more.

My point is at least in my case there is a huge difference. I am more than willing to have an open discussion with them and listen to anything they have to say regardless of whether it's a retread of things I've already considered. It's a one way road.

You're right, I don't know you at all, and shouldn't have said you would not consider what other people say. Some people do indeed do that. I always do enjoy your thoughtful posts, and am sure that you would have a civil, thoughtful two-way conversation.

I was just reacting to 123's post. 123 is sick of listening to Mormons, but is frustrated that 123's family do not want to listen to 123. I'm not surprised that they don't. Few people in the Mormon Church would want to listen to people tell them the kind of "truths" you see on this forum--mocking them as fools for believing in a cult founded by money-grubbing pedophiles. Whether it is religion or politics, we think that we are right and those who believe otherwise are wrong. That's just human nature. But it works both ways.

I listened to the Mormon side for decades. No more listening to their side.

I can't answer the why for you because this has been troubling me for years. Some of the previous posters have expressed very well why this bothers exMormons. It is nice to know that it is not just me and .......

This is also very strong evidence they are a cult and not a pro-family religion. They offer no palatable way for a faithful Mormon family to have a healthy respectful relationship with members of their family that have rejected Mormonism for reasons other than having been offended or choosing sinning over living what they teach as universal truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2013 09:28PM by gentlestrength.

"They offer no palatable way for a faithful Mormon family to have a healthy respectful relationship with members of their family that have rejected Mormonism for reasons other than having been offended or choosing sinning over living what they teach as universal truth."

My Mormon family has certainly maintained a healthy respectful relationship with me (an ex-Mormon) and my wife and children (never Mormons). I know a lot of posters on this forum consider the Mormon Church to be a cult. I just don't see it that way. For me at least, the Mormon Church is a lot more like other mainstream churches than it is like a cult.

There is contempt for the person who breaks the bond of brotherhood within a cult. They are a traitor and they dishonor their ancestors (shudder- sounds like the Mafia).

That's why they always say, "Look how you hurt our mother."

Your answer, "Her thinking that raising a child who stays Mormon is the only reason she has for living, the sole goal of her life, is part of a very large disturbing picture in Mormonism. It's one of the reasons I left. I don't want to be judged by the faithfulness of my childerne. I believe I am more than that-- that I am a fully human diverse personality with much to give to society other than the fruit of my loins.

I myself have a contribution to make.

Anagrammy

+1

Exactly.

I really think some people who are members absolutely do not care if it's true or not. The faith is dead from the inside out. They are comfortable and familiar with it and that is enough. It has little to do with actually faith and everything to do with ancestry and family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2013 11:19PM by suckafoo.

Have you ever had members of your family TELL YOU why you left the Church? That's what happened to me. Nobody asked me though.

I had my wife go around behind my back and tell all my family, her family, our neighbors, and our kids that the reason I left was because I wanted to sin which is false.

The few times I've tried to explain why I left I was accused of being too logical.

How infuriating to try and discuss ideas with people who think logic is a negative?

Exactly! The most frustrating part of their "argument" is that their completely illogical method of obtaining "truth" applies only to their church. They would absolutely accept your logical methodology in any other aspect of your life, but as soon as you try to apply logic to their church, they go crazy! My ex-GF actually told me that it was a sin. WTF??? Its a SIN to look at both sides of an argument and logically weigh the facts against each other? Mormonism is a special kind of insanity.

Yeah I can relate to this. The only one who has an inkilng of the dirt I've found on the church is my mother. We had to agree to disagree. What makes it more frustrating for me is normally she's extremely skeptical and the one who taught me to look at all things skeptically. Quesiton everything...except the church of course.

The one sister I tried talking to about the DNA issue refused to talk to me for two years, to the point that once when I called my mom and DS happened to be there and answered she hung up on me as soon as she heard my voice. We've grown apart so much that we stick to the video games we have in common... all one of them.

My other two sisters haven't even bothered asking. My money is on they think I'm just inactive, this is a phase I'm going through, a rebellion because of my father's death.

It amazes me how much it DOES hurt that they don't care enough to ask me why. So they think I'm inactive. If they really cared about me like they say then shouldn't they at least try to find out why? It helps to remind myself that they're scared to the point of crapping themselves over what my response might be but sometimes I wonder if that's the real reason and they just really don't give a shit.

If I even looked like I might be thinking of talking about the church my father would give me a look like he had just seen the gates of hell opening and he would change the subject so fast it could have been an olympic event.

My mother would bow her head slightly and look like she was about to be beaten if I even seemed like I might broach the subject.

It is unbelievable how terrified these people are of having their testimony questioned. It is clearly a testament to the fact that a testimony is the most fragile thing on earth and has to be fed and protected like a newborn baby hummingbird.

So if they KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT and if they have been WITNESSED TO BY THE HOLY GHOST with a full on burning in the bosom, why on earth are they so terrified of a few facts?

Says it all doesn't it. Actually it says CULT.

My mind is already made up, so don't confuse me with facts. They are 100% confident that the CoJCoLDS is true and that it is their ticket to eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom. Having been brainwashed in that attitude for years, maybe their entire lifetime, the idea that they are wrong is something they don't want to hear.

Therefore it is unrealistic to expect that a TBM will change. For any change to ever happen, something must cause a crack in their Mormon armor that puts them into a searching-for-truth mode. One never knows what the triggering event will be, but in the real world the actions of another family member do not necessarily initiate change.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 04:47PM by saviorself.

Hang in there.

I had several similar experiences for years. I'm the oldest of seven. I opened up to a sibling and then I stopped hearing from them as much as I used to. I felt like in order to have any relationship at all with my family I just couldn't talk about certain things.
Then a few years ago we had a family meeting and mom expresses her concerns that we all seem to be drifting apart. It was everything I could do to sit through the meeting.
Well to make a long story short a couple of the siblings that initially couldn't care less have since found their way out. I was the first person they came out to and it was accompanied with an apology for how they responded when I tried to come out to them.

In reality though, the conversation will likely be pointless.

The TBMs will not want to listen to my reasoning. It is easier for them to go about thier days not hearing the negative side of thier religion.

When people are ready for the truth, they will typically go find it.

Since I dont really care what any of them think of me, I dont feel the need to explain myself to them.

My father said that a testimony is more important than family. To Mormons, personal salvation trumps all.

I know all about this not caring business. I told my TBM cousin in a long letter that I had completely quit TSCC, that I was actually somewhat afraid of the Satanic temple endowment and other ceremonies, that everything in TSCC was a lie. I went on to tell her that if she wanted me to tell her what I have learned, I would be happy to tell her all about it. She wrote back and said that SHE KNEW TSCC was true etc (testimony you've all heard ad nauseum). She said she did not want to hear me speak badly of the profit or badly about TSCC. And she could not believe that I could possible know anything about the temple ceremonies since they are secret and I will never be privy to those secrets. I was a bit shocked that she didn't want to know about so much research I did, but we both follow the script, (I don't mention Mo-ism and she doesn't either) and it works for us.
Except a few weeks ago when the FLDS were on the news with all their crap, my cousin mentioned to me that she could not believe how brainwashed some people could be (referring to the FLDS cult people). I almost said something but I held my thoughts. I did tell her that the internet had so much about the temple ceremonies that TSCC should change them because they are not secret.
She didn't believe that the internet version could be accurate until she watched it and now she is very angry at whoever put those sacred/secret ceremonies on the internet. Perhaps TSCC will change the ceremonies since they want them to be secret?