Joseph Smith gave God a body of flesh and bone.

It is easier to kill your God then transform your God into something less anthropomorphic.

For many former Mormons God is dead.

Also, LDS Mormonism is so dead anyway. Temples are all about the dead, the rituals and observances lack any metaphysically interesting aspects. Mormonism is function more than form. Makes me wonder if Amish or Quaker religious lives are less dead than Mormon life.

The only thing not dead in Mormonism is the current "prophet" and he usually is so near to it as to be its harbinger.

The Spirit of God like a candle not conflagration is burning and that candle is conceptual only - no real fires anywhere in Mormon edifices as they are a fire hazard.

Wouldn't want The Spirit to do much more than exude a ghost-like whisper into your skull to keep you safe from actually living dangerously.

I think maybe the reason many of them end up rejecting Christianity and God altogether is that in the course of their studies, something shifts in them. They go from continually needing proof that their beliefs are false in order to reject them to needing proof that they're true in order to maintain them. And by the time they've disposed of their Mormon belief system, and get to general Christian claims, they see no reason to expect that evidence to be forthcoming.

Which may be why so few ex-Mormons end up making a thorough study of Christianity after leaving. They no longer NEED to prove it false to leave it behind. They've reached a point where they put the burden on those who want them to think it's true to give them a reason to waste their time.


It may also be that by the time they leave, Mormons are more intimately acquainted with the kind of psychological tricks and wishful thinking that go into maintaining certain religious beliefs than a typical Christian is. A Baptist or a Catholic who realizes that the Bible doesn't stand up to scrutiny may on some level realize the role that mental gymnastics played in their religion, but maybe with Mormons the constant instruction in specific methods to maintain your faith may make them more adept at recognizing them once they're out? That's just speculation on my part though, no idea if it actually stacks up that way.


I also like what you said: In giving God a body, they make it easier to kill him as a concept than to make him more abstract. The Mormon idea of God is very literal and old-fashioned. Whereas most of mainstream Christianity has made their God concept more nebulous in order to survive, Mormonism has not. He's tangible, falsifiable. So when you show why their religion is false, this concrete conception of God dies along with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 09:05AM by doubtisavirtue.

Possibly another thing to consider: When raised Mormon, you may have a lifetime of Mormon teachings busily undermining Catholicism, Protestant beliefs, all other forms of Christianity and non-Christian religions. When you become fully invested in Mormonism, you know that all other churches are patently false. When you find that Mormonism is wrong and bail out of it, where do you now go? Anecdotal observations seem to indicate that many ex-Mormons go toward Unitarianism, because of its come-as-you-are mentality.

and essentially handed over to TSCC for baptism after my mother died in exchange for assistance my dad never received. Even so, I always paid attention to religions, and could see their flaws. I did not see those flaws in TSCC at a young age, but we hardly ever attended, and my parents essentially taught us nothing other than "no coffee, tea or alcohol".

At YBU I was less critical, because I had to catch up, and learn about TSCC; I was at a disadvantage in religion classes. I missed a lot of church, and went inactive for years afterwards.

Later, I became TBM for maybe 5 years, and then left, because I saw the flaws that were incompatible with a so-called inspired church that was supposed to speak for gawd. After finally paying attention, it was obvious, and easy to deconstruct. My last problem was my spiritual experiences which had to be explained since I knew there was no gawd. I looked at them objectively for the first time, and at how religions explain these experiences, answers to prayer, etc., and it was obvious my interpretations were subjective, and made in the context of learned religious delusion. There are logical, rational, and scientific explanations for spiritual experiences.

So I went from being TBM to questioning the nature of authority, power, and deity to atheism. I did not know TSCC was a fraud, and thought JS was a deluded believer, because I had not read that much history. Much of my time, and scrutiny, was spent on scripture reading which leads to atheism for me - especially the story of Laban, the OT, the NT contradictions... well all of it really.

Really, I was returning to what I had always known before I conformed to, and accepted cultural norms (xstianity) as truth.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 09:44AM by atheist&happy:-).

For me it was the simple fact that prayer, which is held up as the be all end all of religion, doesn't work. That the process of prayer told me that Mormonism was true, despite all the evidence against it, ruled it out as a credible process.

I think it's for a different reason.

To stop believing in Mormonism but to continue to believe in God is like deciding that Snow White is a fairy tale creature but that Prince Charming is still real.

Once you look hard enough to discover 1/2 of the fairy tale is made up it's not that hard to realize the whole thing is made up.

Also - the standard Christian God is a huge asshole compared to the Mormon God - at least the Mormon God allows proxy baptism instead of making non-believers burn for eternity.

This. I think the OP is overthinking it.

You have to deconstruct mormonism in order to think your way out. Once that is done, you've learned all these great new analytical and research skills. It's not much of a stretch to apply those same skills to christianity and then organized religion in general. Pretty soon the whole house of cards comes crumbling down.

I have a friend who is a recovered Southern Baptist. He told me that he became an atheist through the process of studying mormonism in order to rail against it. Like I said above, once he'd deconstructed mormonism using the tools of logic, analysis, and research, it didn't take much more for him to apply those same tools to his Baptist religion. Christianity in general fell apart for him shortly thereafter.

Mormonism insisted not only that I should BELIEVE, but that I must KNOW certain things . . . that God lived, that the church was true, etc. It convinced me that if I didn't absolutely KNOW, then there was something missing in my life and even more, that something was wrong with ME. Oh, and also that I wasn't worthy to live with God again.

I spent my life into my mid-30s trying to have a testimony, and blaming myself for not succeeding.

THEN I found out the whole things was a crock of *&%^.

So after that, I wasn't about to believe in invisible, mute Gods, or holy books full of improbable stories.

DONE with that.

But I was pressured to KNOW. Which, because of unanswered prayers, paradoxically caused me to doubt and question.

My very unscientific observation--Mormons who were something else first might revert to their previous religion. BIC Mormons often revert to everyone's first religion--atheism.

It took me a while to throw a "higher power" out. I still wish for a what I called "a force for good in the universe". DH helped kill that entity when he pointed out that logic required an accommpanying "force for evil in the universe" and did I believe that too? I still pine away for a force to save pathetic humans from themselves. Such cheery thoughts!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 10:16AM by Dorothy.

Being a mormon since the beginning was logically based and encouraged testing, ie pray to get an answer.

the BoM was very in line with current scientific thought. You might disagree but I think the premise of mormonism lends to a rational minded person. it is presented as here is a religion that you can prove is true.

if you entered the church on the rational stance and proved it to yourself then discovered evidence that was counter to that proof you have to figure our how you were missled. IMO every one that leaves realizes 'warm fuzzies' can be manufactured by false stories.

once you know that, you don't trust any stories any more that are told in an effort to motivate you for a persons particular cause. IE I bet there are others on here that get emails from relatives or friends with some touching story about soldiers or other things, but buried in there is a reason to hate the ACLU or democrats or republicans or motivate you to a religion. you read that and you BS detector goes off. you check the facts and often find there is a lie in there that you are being asked to swallow with the moving story. once your BS detector is tuned up and working, you see more clearly.

fool me once shame on you....

I disagree because it isn't just Mormonism. Atheism is growing rapidly the world over. Many who leave other religions (especially Christian denominations) end up atheist.

I attribute it mostly to paradigm shifts. When your world completely changes (i.e. you realize your parents/teachers/leaders/any-authority-figure weren't right about some important things), you have no reason to trust anything you've learned.

When I left mormonism, I didn't just re-study theology, but science, math, history, etc... and guess what? I found glaring errors in EVERY subject (yes, even math. We can discuss this in another thread if there are any math/science/history buffs out there who want to chat)

I didn't become atheist because I killed god, I became atheist because the logical position on any unverified thing is a lack in belief.

If someone I only know casually (i.e. no inherent trust) tells me they have a birth mark that looks like Alaska, my default opinion will be that of a lack of belief. If they show it to me, or even just show me a picture, then I am obviously willing to change my mind (even though they could be tricking me with photoshop, or makeup, it makes it far more likely that their proclaimed fact is accurate).

So now, I tell you that I do, in fact, have a birthmark that looks like Alaska. Do you believe me? (This is not rhetorical/hypothetical, I am literally proclaiming to have a birthmark that looks a lot like Alaska)

People who know me well on this board will likely believe me.
People who don't will probably default to distrust/disbelief (i.e. maybe Justrob is trying to prove a point about gullibility, and I shouldn't trust him). And that is a perfectly logical reason to lack belief.

Once you have a lack of all belief, it allows you to do research the right way. You don't just take 1 source and trust it, you take copious sources, and note discrepancies, and then do your own validation/experimentation where possible.

That's the power behind a paradigm shift. It allows you to approach something without the same biases that you've been using (it may contain its own set of new biases though).

...

When someone identifies with Atheism after being religious, it is by very definition a lack of belief. That lack often leads to research, which often leads to secularism and a more self-assured form of Atheism that can approach or become anti-theism.

While you may still be biased by your previous religion's paradigm of god, your disbelief will allow you to ponder various types of gods, & draw conclusions about them.

I have drawn conclusions that any god that may exist is unworthy or worship, as that god neither affects my life, nor provides any reason for me to trust that god for a reward after this life.

Essentially I am saying there are no personal gods invested in my/your/our lives. Any such god would have to provide some reason to believe in or worship them. Some may use the word "evidence," but that tends to focus the believers on proving that a god exist. I prefer the word "motive." There is no motive to believe in god, other than irrational fears that are neither solved nor mitigated by that belief. So essentially the belief itself is merely a defense mechanism that helps people stop thinking about things that bother them, & focus on things that provide them with a sense of validation.

Ah yes, nicely stated. It's easy to kill a literal, physical, historically existing God of flesh and bone.

What seems more difficult for the ex-Mormon is thinking so literally.

Last line should read:

What seems more difficult for the ex-Mormon TO KILL is thinking so literally.

It's pretty normal for people who escape a demanding religion or come from one who's image is becoming tarnished to become atheists or agnostics. Basically you leave because you have discovered you were lied to and your life was messed with. This results in a huge amount of anger and a desire to toss everything regarding your church upbringing away.

In other words you have wiped your slate clear.

God is dead

newatthis Wrote:
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> God is dead

Elohim, having been commissioned by you I baptise you in your name and in the name of your son and in the name of your ghost.

Amen.

I actually let go of mormonism at the same time I let go of the Abrahamic god myth. That first tiny seed of "maybe the church ISN'T true" led me to open up my Bible, to sort of start from scratch. Partway through the first chapter of Genesis I realized it was all nonsense.

I was agnostic for a while - I didn't believe in a corporeal deity, or even a singular personage/force, but thought maybe there was some kind of karma or The Universe or something. It was hard to go from believing in a higher power to letting go completely - but eventually I did. When I first left mormonism, I knew that no other organized religion could offer me any more proof of god's existence than TSCC could. The answers might be different, but the methodology would be the same. It would all be based on warm, fuzzy feelings. That's why I immediately abandoned organized religion. When I transitioned to atheism, it was because I no longer felt any need to hold on to belief in a higher power.

As a kid growing up, all the people I loved and trusted in the world were mormons. My parents, my friends, my ward members - all of them believed this and testified that it was the complete, whole and perfect truth.

Then I discovered it was all false. It wasn't even that hard: mormonism is spectacularly false if you are willing to look.

NOW I'm supposed to believe in a bunch of christians - whom I didn't grow up with - are telling me the truth?

Nope. Been there, done that. Fool me once. Now when christians tell me I'm going to hell, I just laugh.

with the sellers of religion.

Every one of them.

Every single religion is more concerned with the institution, not the individual.....tradition not truth.....power and money, not human well being. Look at history, churches were more than happy to burn people at the stake, just for the crime of a different point of view. Ever seen scientists kill each other? Nope, that is left up to the clergy of the various religions.

My days of any faith in any religion are long gone, faith in any sort of afterlife or god?...well, we will just have to wait and see.

The men in charge of selling religion to the masses are complete gas bags and utter failures. If there is a god, he surely could have done better.

Going from being a Mormon to being an atheist is completely understandable to me. What I don't understand are those on the list who still believe in Jesus etc. Can anyone explain?

Great thread and so many excellent points. Literal God is much easier to kill, logic and reason are faith killers, a house of cards falls down completely, you can't believe 1/2 of a fairy tale while believing the other half, you can't unsee the Man Behind the Curtain, and paradigm shifts bring about a completely different viewpoint.

As for your question, IMO it comes down to our survival instinct. We have a herd mentality hardwired into our genes because it increases our chances of survival. Some people have a very difficult time giving up the idea of a supernatural being who will protect us. That and accepting the idea of no afterlife. Both are big pills to swallow.

Best line in the thread from Dorothy: "BIC Mormons often revert to everyone's first religion--atheism." Love it.

Sorry is kind a long.
IMHO
Religion is a cult of the death. The first religion so far I know was Bahaal. It is a death cult. Christianity is the same. Names had changed. But when someone reads about Horus, Isis and Ra Tammuz they can not denial that it is the same religion the same stories just with Name changes of the actors and area in the story.
They worship death people.

I’ll think when a Mormon starts the question about the church and find out all the stuff in the Book Mormon, Iron swords, Horses and so on in ancient America than the next step is the Bible.
Luke and his story about little Jesus fits so close to Isis and Ra, the Bahaal cult from Egypt. Betlehem was founded by the Crusaders in 1011. The closest village there is called Efrata there. How could Luke know that the Crusaders will found a village called Betlehem in 1011?
The 3 Kings where not always Kings. First they were 3 Magicians. About 3-400 AD being a Magician was not so good anymore. The Name Magician or Witch becomes negative and so they became the 3 Wise Man. About 900 AD they become 3 Kings from the east. Many today go with Wise man or Kings. Magicians disappeared.
Only this story I could fill a entire chapter of a Book with.

Jesus and Pilatus? Is it normal that a bunch of religious freaks (Pilatus was a roman and not a Jew) knocking in the night on a Governors door and ask them to do a trail of justice right now and there. The Governor ask 3-4 questions and decides right than and there the man is guilty by “Roman Law” and the punishment is death without a trail, just because a bunch of fanatics shoed up in the middle of the night?
Are you sure?
Romans were no barbarians and they actually founded the court of law. Even in today’s world we have the roman justice system.
In our city and towns often the roman godness Justitia stands blindfoldet in front of the courthouse.
Pilatus must be suicidal. Because if he had acted like that he would be trailed by Law in Rome.
I could go on and on and on.

I’ll think if you say the book of Mormon could not be true because of many things that the book tells you, you have to take the same measurement on the Bible, on any book that claims to contain the word or inspired word of God.

That’s why so many people become atheist.

Opinion off.

Thanks for reading.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 03:29PM by buddyjoe.

Perfect length for the content conveyed :-)

I'm not sure what I am yet, probably agnostic, and it's been already said, but if Joseph Smith could fool so many in a relatively modern age, it's no surprise that a good con thousands of years ago could turn into what we have today.

Very easy to see how that could be the case.
This dude in Russia claimed he was Jesus in 1990, and he's already up to over 5,000 followers including a bunch of people that go on a pilgrimage to his little city.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Cv5hZfOmk

And this is in modern times. We always like to think that we are so much smarter than people were 2,000 years ago... but we're just not that different.

Mormonism is intellectually deeper than Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. After one believes God has a body like Mormons do, or in "eternal progression", there is no place else to go that is deep enough to satisfy the heart, for none of the other religions give a better purpose or paradigm that can easily replace Mormonism. The best alternative? Throw it all out. Atheism.

Joseph Smith was right, all of he religions are wrong, and the BIble is corrupted, especially the New Testament. Since that *is* true, and Mormons have been trained to believe it, where does one go to fellowship? Atheism.

The "I know it's true" mantra of evolution is very attractive. One can easily flip from "I know the church is true" to "I know evolution is true".

It's a great fit!

Homeless Wrote:
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> Mormonism is intellectually deeper than Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Are you kidding? When was the last time you attended a Gospel Doctrine class? Mormonism is all milk, no meat. They pride themselves on not relying on reason or philosophy, and it shows. We are told to avoid the "mysteries" and focus instead on the "simple truths of the gospel". Mormonism makes the worst possible case for theism.

However, I will grant that Mormonism does tend to poison the religious well. Once bitten, twice shy.

It's religious PTSD for me.

I'm done with religion. FOREVER.

What doubtisavirtue said. And what Strykary said about prayer. And, gee what everyone said. So many great answers here. I don't think I could put it any better.

Wheterh it be the cult of jesus, the cult of buddha, the cult of joseph, the cult of muhammed it's just slight variations of the same kind of bs

Right it is in al cases just plain and simple the ancient egypt Bahaal.
Just Names, Locations had changed. The storry is the same.