In 2008 the mormon church reaffirmed its strong support of the California Marriage Protection Act. In the church meetings and strategy sessions leading up to election day, I became increasingly uncomfortable with the whole idea of denying a segment of the population the rights which I enjoyed.

Who am I to tell others how to live their life? What if the roles were reversed?

In 2008 I was still pretty much TBM, but with some pet peeves over the years, specifically the white-washing of church history. Its all spelled out on the Bio Board if you're interested.

Prop 8 was the last straw. I was done. Since then I have quit going to the temple, quit paying tithing, quit wearing garments, quit praying about anything.

Fast forward to 2012. I turned 60 last summer. Part of that was a period of self-examination. What am I going to do with whatever I have left?

I gave myself permission to be skeptical in the best sense.

I gave myself permission to make my own decisions with respect to the conduct of my life.

I gave myself permission to live my life independent of pleasing others. But DW's opinion still carries a lot of weight.

I gave myself permission to enjoy everything our world has to offer and quit worrying about events and things that might or might not happen in the future.

For a lot reasons, I'm going to keep going to church with DW. But now I consider myself "In the church, but not of it."

That phrase is so liberating!

My name is Kim Marks

Amen. Well said.

You. I'm on the same page!

I understand the agreement with your post, but in doing so aren't people recommending you live a lie??? for possible the rest of your life.

To stay in a "spirtual relationship" with a church and church leaders though getting no spirtual enrichment out of it only fools you.

nonmo_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand the agreement with your post, but in
> doing so aren't people recommending you live a
> lie??? for possible the rest of your life.
>
> To stay in a "spirtual relationship" with a church
> and church leaders though getting no spirtual
> enrichment out of it only fools you.


I can only speak for myself: I went along to get along for sometime before I came to the conclusion that Mormonism was not for me and I could ease out in a reasonable fashion.

I don't think people live a lie by doing what is expedient for greater reasons that some religious beliefs. I think it's best to keep the religious beliefs a minor part of the relationships and concentrate on their value and longevity and using the power of unconditional love!

"I don't think people live a lie by doing what is expedient for greater reasons that some religious beliefs."

I disagree, unless it is short term. If this is a long-term open ended solution for the OP as a means to "get along" with his wife, to me he is living a lie.

Now if in this "lie" he feels that he has a better chance at happiness and a happy marriage instead of possibly going it alone without his wife (who can conditionally withold love if he leaves mormonism), then so be it.

To me though it is still a lie...Almost as much of a lie as a gay mormon staying married

in the church like you who help to tone down the more radical elements of mormonism.

the garments, the temple, the spotty attendance, those are just superficial, once you stop participating in the one fundamental Mormon exchange (money or convincing other to not give money) then the will eventually call you in and take action. Money is what they are after, is what they are all about since the beginning, law of common consent, Zion, oaths to give it all, tithing, settlements, failed banks...they have always and will always be after your money. Even after you go inactive. Stop the money, stop the church.

I go to church with DW for several reasons. Only one of which is to keep the bright lights off DW.

I find very little spiritual there. Thats one of the many reasons I'm done with it.

Yes, you're right, if I had any courage whatsoever, I'd resign. But DW, living situation, etc., require me to stay in the pew for a while.

"I find very little spiritual there."

I find this a very telling comment. I know plenty of people who go to various denominations of christian/bible-thumping churches. They seem to get a lot of spirtual enrichment out of it. It seems to genuinley make them happy.

I know many mormons..TBM and all. I don't see a shred of spirtual enrichment eminating from them due to their religion.

I get the impression that the mormon religion is their 2nd job...or maybe even their first job..

rutabaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I go to church with DW for several reasons. Only
> one of which is to keep the bright lights off DW.
>
> I find very little spiritual there. Thats one of
> the many reasons I'm done with it.
>
> Yes, you're right, if I had any courage
> whatsoever, I'd resign. But DW, living situation,
> etc., require me to stay in the pew for a while.


On the other hand, it takes a boat load of courage to manage a relationship that has become so diverse religiously. It's also a matter of respect and compromise to keep something of value together and functioning. Those are the higher principles in my view, of how to manage a relationship that is worth the effort!
Most of us do a lot of things we'd rather not do to keep harmony in the home and show our unconditional love for our partners and family. It's not black and white. There are many factors that go into the survival rate of a long term marriage!

I'm going to add a PS: It's my observation that many marriages in the LDS Church are religiously one sided. One spouse is more religious than the other and more inclined to be involved and the other, in an effort to show support, love, and respect, goes along to get along on some level to preserve the family. I think this is evident in other religions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 05:08PM by SusieQ#1.

Good for you - on many levels.

Thanks SusieQ#1 and all of you who commented.

I guess the point of the post is not clear.

I have reached a point in my withdrawal from the church where I feel good about my progress. I've looked at the issues that are important to me, feel good about the decisions I've made and am working hard to build and maintain a relationship with DW separate from the church. At this point she seems okay with what I'm doing and thinking.

My bishop knows my situation and so far is leaving me alone. I have a very very low level calling.

The point of the post is that upon reaching the age of 60, I've given myself permission to be myself, free from the dogma and confined thinking of the church. I can go, let events swirl around me, zone out during a tedious talk or lesson and go home with a smile on my face. And I'm pretty darn happy with that.

There are just a number of posters who don't care to extend you the same courtesy that you have extended yourself ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 04:59PM by bc.

Thank you bc!

rutabaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks SusieQ#1 and all of you who commented.
>
> I guess the point of the post is not clear.
>
> I have reached a point in my withdrawal from the
> church where I feel good about my progress. I've
> looked at the issues that are important to me,
> feel good about the decisions I've made and am
> working hard to build and maintain a relationship
> with DW separate from the church. At this point
> she seems okay with what I'm doing and thinking.
>
> My bishop knows my situation and so far is leaving
> me alone. I have a very very low level calling.
>
> The point of the post is that upon reaching the
> age of 60, I've given myself permission to be
> myself, free from the dogma and confined thinking
> of the church. I can go, let events swirl around
> me, zone out during a tedious talk or lesson and
> go home with a smile on my face. And I'm pretty
> darn happy with that.


Amen!! :-)

My life is a parallel to yours rutabata. Only difference, I have only been to sacrament twice in the last six months. First time, a complete stranger asked me to help clean the toilets the following Saturday. I left without staying for the meeting. Last Sunday I tried again and a man bore testimony that Satan would be "loosed" the day of the inauguration of President Obama. I laughed out loud and the sister sitting next to me followed my lead and laughed also. I can't go there anymore, I am not a rude person by nature.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 05:33PM by george.

Wow! Somebody actually said that in their testimony? Does stuff so crazy happen often? I haven't been to church in 25 years.

Sometimes crazy needs to be laughed at.

Thanks for your post. Living in CA during Prop 8 was the beginning of me thinking I couldn't fake it anymore and had to figure a way out.

whether it be single, divorced, widowed, or an inactive husband. They are looked down on and treated as second-class citizens. To me, you are proving you love your wife.

Way to go.

All that in addition to being an often overlooked delicious vegetable.

Thank you for the comments everyone.