I just wanted to thank everyone, but especially NeverMo in CA, Mia, and WinksWinks for their feedback and input. Everyone gave a lot of good advice.

It is disappointing that the friendship is "not worth $600". At least now I know! I feel if she had been honest and upfront with me about not wanting to be in the wedding party I would not feel the way I do now about that friendship.

My fiancé and I are really looking forward to our wedding, and when I mentioned how bummed this situation made me he said, "Don't worry! Look at how your other two friends (who have their own financial and situational stresses) love you and value your friendship! They are just as excited as we are about the wedding." Which helped a lot. I'm so excited about our party and we are going to have a lot of fun planning it!

The LDS friend did have the standard temple wedding and cultural hall/basketball court reception. I went even though I knew I wouldn't be able to attend her wedding and that the cultural hall was going to be the 'open house receiving line' thing. I honestly had an awful time (a lot of her guests were rude to me) but I felt the important thing was to show up for her.

vulturetamer, you are such an awesome friend!

Honestly, I think the money issue is a big one for a lot of people. Being in somebody's wedding is generally a huge expense, often at a time in your life when you don't have a lot of extra cash on hand. While it may be an honor, to be frank, it's also often a PIA. I have several nieces in their 20s, and they spend a fortune as bridesmaids and it sort of gets old, no matter how much you like the bride and groom.

So try not to take it personally. Your wedding is special to you. That doesn't mean it's the event of the century for everyone else. While I'm sure you're not the bridezilla type, it's natural to get so wrapped up in the event that you don't see the perspective of other people.

I understand that money is tight for a lot of people right now. Neither me nor my fiance have a large social circle, and honestly I was really pleasantly surprised with the reaction I got from the other two bridesmaids, because they both have their own financial/familial struggles (one is having her first baby this summer, the other has three children under 6).

Because I know it's not cheap for them to get out here I want to buy their dresses to help offset the cost to them. I'm not expecting to have a bridal shower or bachelorette party. I'm paying to have my hair done, but will leave it open to them if they want to pay to have their hair and/or makeup done professionally. They can wear a pair of appropriate shoes they already own. I've tried to be as cognizant of their situations as I can.

I knew that money was probably going to be an issue with her; I would have appreciated a frank, "I'd love to be one of your bridesmaids, but I'm not up for the responsibility and am not sure I will be able to attend" as opposed to coming up with every roundabout excuse (think of the pictures!) under the sun. The whole vibe I got from her on the phone was that it's OK to make an exciting-sounding post on Facebook from afar for social purposes but to actually drum up any real excitment for the wedding is too much to ask. To set me up as the bad guy by sort-of saying yes, not suggesting a dress line that had a dress she would be satisfied with, then crying that none of the dresses would work for her and she wouldn't be 'offended' if I asked her to step down is just really lame, especially to follow up with "You'll understand when you're single-handedly supporting your husband and child".

I was very explicit that she shouldn't do this out of a sense of obligation because that wasn't in the spirit of how my fiance and I want to start our marriage. So from that perspective it really worked out OK.

We have planned to invite her and her husband, out of the friendship I thought I had with her, but am not expecting her to RSVP or show up. One nice thing about having a wedding that is a destination for most guests is that only the people who really want to be there and are genuinely happy and supportive of us will be there.

One thing I might suggest, though - is that you have some low-key thing when you return home for the friends who did really want to be there, but couldn't afford it.

I've had several friends have destination weddings, and I wasn't able to go to them. And yes, I did really want to be there and be genuinely happy and supportive. Yes, $600 for a flight (as well as the other additional expenses involved in traveling to a wedding) is a big deal on my budget.

Her response was lame, and she definitely wanted to find a way to bow out due to the financial situation and handled it badly... BUT... very few people can do that frank bluntness you would have appreciated - it almost always would cause a fallout. Be aware that while you think you would have appreciated, since it didn't happen... you have no clue how you would have actually reacted to it.

Here's the thing that I think you might be ignoring, due to the money fixation - she did try to suggest getting together at a later date that might work out. She did mention wanting to get together with you. Regardless of how off she might be on geography - she was honest in that regard that perhaps a later batch of travel, for expenses that were already committed, may be able to be adjusted a bit to get together.

The reality is - no one (other than maybe your parents) are going to be as excited about your wedding as you are. That's just a fact. Expecting people to drum up the excitement is unrealistic. And "if they're not willing to spend this, then clearly my friendship isn't worth that much" is very, very unfair.

The overall solution to not have her as a bridesmaid is a good one. Thinking she's less of a friend because she can't spend money is not.

I really hope your special day is far more special than any cookie cutter temple sealing, and it sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun.
When I got married, I still didn't know about the temple ceremony and I was sure all the family I had invited were sneering behind their backs at my big day. (Especially since we were three miles hike out a boardwalk, a few hand gathered flowers on the walk, a tropical/beachy theme, and everybody camping in whatever accommodations my guests had brought.)
Then I read it on the internet and I laughed and laughed at what I had imagined to be princes and princesses in a fairytale castle!

Mine was definitely better. It had the word Love in it many times, and Love is not said once in the temple sealing! I tell everyone to work the word Love into their ceremony as many times as possible because it is so conspicuously absent in the mo ceremony.

May all the passive-aggressive people be weeded out of your party before the big day!

Thank you WinksWinks! Your wedding sounds like it was really lovely!

KestraFinn, she had not committed the money to New Mexico yet. It was a "my BIL just moved there and I know my husband wants to visit him". She also just spent a weekend in Las Vegas. I do not live anywhere near where she lives, and have not, for quite some time.

I get that my wedding is really only important to my fiance and myself. But her non-existent participation online in the group I set up for the wedding party to communicate on is prety obvious of how excited she was. That she could not be direct with me is a product of her experiences and who she is, and your assumption of my not knowing how I would have reacted to an honest statement is completely off.

I'm speaking in reaction to your comment alleging that your friendship isn't worth $600. That's an over-reaction and unfair to her. I know, from experience, that reactions to wedding rejections can be very weird and out of place for one's character. Until you're in a situation, yes, you can say you'd act a certain way... but you didn't face that situation. That's what I'm reminding you of. Your expectations are out of whack here.

I'm someone who was married in the last five years, and remember all of the emotions and the weirdness that revolves around wedding planning.

I was assuming nothing. You do seem to be assuming some things about her with her lack of action on your group online. Do you really know how busy she is in her everyday life? Maybe she does have things that simply aren't your business (or that she doesn't want to share) that have pre-occupied her. Would being direct and frank solved a lot of the issue? Likely yes - but in the real world, that doesn't always happen. A lot of people are embarrassed to admit problems, especially when it comes to money or family-related stress.

She handled it badly - but you're reacting inappropriately, too, by thinking her less of a friend because she can't spend $600 or express what you deem as appropriate excitement on an online group.

kestrafinn, you obviously have not followed my previous postings and are basing your opinion on this thread only. It was my mistake to invite her as a bridesmaid, because I thought my friendship with her is more than it was, and her behavior has highlighted that pretty clearly.

See: http://apracticalwedding.com/2010/12/ask-team-practical-bridesmaids/#more-7231

"A wedding can and will transform your relationship with your partner. It will not transform your friendship with your bridesmaids*. Meg said it best when she said, “Weddings have a way of bringing ‘the way we wish things were’ into conflict with ‘the way things are.’”

And still, this isn’t to let bad bridesmaids off the hook. If you’re up front about what you need and they are falling down on the job, let them know. This is an important event and if they can contribute that’s amazing. But you’re counting on them and if they bail on you or become controlling, call them out on it. And it doesn’t have to be a come-to-Jesus meeting, just a gentle reminder that they’re being a douche and you’d like them to go back to being your friend, thank you very much."

Most Mormons aren't "frank and upfront", it's discouraged in their culture.

Having to pay 10% of their gross income to the morg makes a huge dent in most members' budgets.
The cult takes away people's fun money and their investment money.

Be a considerate friend and let her save face while bowing out.

Most Mormons aren't "frank and upfront", it's discouraged in their culture.

Having to pay 10% of their gross income to the morg makes a huge dent in most members' budgets.
The cult takes away people's fun money and their investment money.

Be a considerate friend and let her save face while bowing out.
She can't afford it.

to prove they are your friend? Just to be in your wedding?
Are you on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or something?

Whoa! Why is everyone yelling at the bride here? The bridesmaid was looking for an out and was passive-aggressive and condescending to the bride-to-be. Asking her to step down was the absolute RIGHT THING for her to do. I'm not sure why some posters are giving her such a hard time.

MollyMisanthrope, I hope your wedding is beautiful. Getting married is a tremendous milestone--congratulations. I hope the dear friends and family at the wedding are able to share in this wonderful and important event in your life. I sincerely hope the years to come are the happiest years ahead for you and your beloved.

Thank you Elmira for your kind words!

My fiance and I are so excited for our wedding. He tells me he cannot wait until we're married every day, and we are enjoying planning our fun party together. I feel incredibly lucky for us to have found each other, and I hope it will be a nice and memorable celebration for us.

Because the bride is unable to see that her wedding isn't the Most Important Thing Ever for everyone.

To be mad at her friend because she isn't producing enough pseudo excitement on the facebook group isn't exactly a mature, rational response. Very few people are genuinely thrilled to be asked to be in a wedding, especially if they've done it a few times before. Yeah, it's an honor. It's also an expensive, inconvenient pain, and brides often suffer from wedding-induced insanity.

To be sure, the friend handled this badly and should have been more direct, but admitting you can't afford something that your peers can afford is difficult for a lot of people.

When a young Mormon wife is 24 and has kids who are 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, and another on the way while trying to fulfill her basic duties to clean the temple, clean the chapel, attend the temple, attend all church meetings, attend cannery assignments, do visiting teaching, do compassionate service in RS, bake goodies for her husband's home teaching families, do member-missionary work, be involved in the local community, do PTA, fulfill her Primary teaching calling, do achievement days during the week, help with cub scouts, do her genealogy, work full-time, daily scripture reading with the family, daily scripture reading with the husband, personal scripture reading, sing in the ward choir, sing in the stake choir, be on the HOA board, grow her garden, get her year of food supply, read church magazine articles, read church books and other self-help books, keep a good blog up online so her nonmember friends/everyone will know how happy and wonderful being a Mormon can be so they will join too, pay a full tithing, pay fast offerings, donate to church humanitarian aid, donate to missionary fund, write lonely missionaries, be the taxicab and nurturer for her kids and husband, give the missionaries rides and meals, and everything else its possible that money and time might be a bit tight. Of course now that the SP is calling her and husband in for an interview this week to be the Bishop for the next 6 years she's going to even be busier than she is now.

"It is disappointing that the friendship is "not worth $600". "
Expecting someone to spend $600 to attend your "destination wedding" is out of line. She was trying to save face by making excuses, but YOU should have done the polite thing and not put her in the position of NOT HAVING to make excuses.

Maybe I'm just old, but I can't imagine asking bridesmaids to be in my destination wedding if I weren't going to pay their way.

My two cents:
1.Being a convert at the age of 30, I've realized that BIC's can really have a hard time functioning in a social setting where they might be the only Mormon. I've seen people try to avoid those events because it makes them too uncomfortable. This be one of the many reasons for your friends behavior.
2. Thanks to other responders, I finally realized what I took as being flaky, or indecisive, rudeness for not RSVPing yes or no, comes from the church culture of never say "No" and when they really want to, passive aggressive behavior is what they do instead. frickin cult.

Yup and yup!

When you originally posted about your dilemma, you stated:

"She seemed to perk up a little when I mentioned we would buy her dress (I've decided to pick the color and designer and let each gal pick the style), but vented a lot about her financial obligations X, Y, and Z. I mentioned that I knew how difficult things were and if she didn't feel up to it that it would be OK; we would still be friends and she would still be invited to the wedding as a guest even if she and her husband would only be able to attend in spirit. She said she would like to, but that it would be impossible for her to make the rehearsal or the rehearsal dinner the night before and in the end couldn't really give me a definite yes or no."

Initially, you noted that her inability to attend, even if financial, would not effect your friendship.

It now appears that you feel as though her inability to spend the necessary money to attend is a sign of her lack of friendship.

What did I miss? I admit that I haven't read every single thing you have posted.

By the way, I hope you have a wonderful wedding and a happy life with your groom. I am excited for you both!

MollyMisanthrope, you are did the right thing by asking that miserable-inside bridesmaid to step down. She is giving EVERY signal that she doesn't want to be in it, and facing that fact and acting on it bodes well for you.


$600 is not all the money in the world and if you're going to be in a wedding, it's a reasonable amount. Lambast me for that comment, whatever, but come on. If you agree to be a bridesmaid, which is a HUGE HONOR, you agree to a) buy a nice dress and b) act HAPPY AND ENTHUSIASTIC for the bride! In fact, if the bride LETS YOU PICK THE DRESS, that's a signal that you're dealing with a gracious, classy bride.


And for what it's worth, Molly Misanthrope, your wedding IS The Most Important Event Ever--or one of them--in your life.


Here's a hard truth: sometimes, people change and friendships end. If I were you, I'd dump this toxic bridesmaid all together. She sounds like 20 miles of passive-aggressive, reality-denying, bad decision making road.

I hope your other bridesmaids aren't as crazy as this one. Please tell me they are not...

p.s. I've been following your thread, Molly, since it started and read all of your posts.

p.p.s. I have a tendency to tell it like it is. There's a reason Dorothy dropped a house on me.

Thank you for your kind words!

I've really been struggling with the realization that the friendship I thought I had with her was not what it actually is. Someone made the "$600 is more than what your friendship is worth to her" in the previous thread, and that really hit home for some reason. I think my repeating it here has turned it into something else.

It was her insinuation that I should care more about how the photographs would turn out (after she provided zero feedback into the dress line to use) than have her in the bridal party that really disgusted me. Then to go back and say that I'll understand what it's like to have financial difficulties when I'm supporting a husband and a child, when to be blunt my fiance has already finished his education and is well established in his career. I still don't know what to think about all of that. I almost get this feeling that there's some weird schaedenfruede (spell check?) going on - just wait until you have a kid and are as miserable as me? Huh?

In the end I don't think it was about the money, that money was just a socially acceptable excuse. If the wedding was in the town we went to high school in (50 miles from her current home, and where her parents live), I think she would have found some other reason not to be involved given her attitude during our phone conversation.

I'm really, really fortunate that my other two bridesmaids have been absolutely wonderful. I was really surprised with how delighted and excited they were when I asked them, and I think they are collaborating really well together.

"...just wait until you have a kid and are as miserable as me? Huh?"

There is actually a lot of truth to what you're saying here. Motherhood in the church is of course what women are supposed to aspire to. And pretty much that only, highest calling, and all that. If all the young women hear about are the Kodak moments and how precious and joyful children are, well reality can be a harsh check.
These new mothers then perpetuate the stories so that younger women get sucked into making babies possibly much sooner than they would have in the natural course of things if they had all the information about the pros AND cons.
There are an awful lot of older women "protecting" younger women from the harsh realities of parenthood. I believe in being fully informed, so this has always felt very deceitful to me. Especially if you catch a young mother on a bad day where she needs to vent. She will let slip a few complaints, serious ones too, and then upon realizing that she is speaking to a non-mother, quickly launches into how it's sooooo worth it! *butterflies and awesome!*
Well, it may or may not be, and going either way is OKAY! But if you should tell this suddenly enthusiastic, previously complaining mother that you intend NOT to have children, suddenly you are "unnatural" and your very womanhood will be questioned.
Sometimes this is because they didn't even realize they could have chosen not to have children.

But I am dedicated-ly childfree, so let's see just how many mothers come tell you how worth it it all is. :)
Every child should be wanted, not just what you are obligated to do with your life.

Have you ever had to worry about how to pay the bills or buy necessities? I have and no matter how great the honor or how much I loved the friend, if I couldn't afford it, I would skip the wedding. It is possible this is the situation here . This was supposed to be a reply to Elmira.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2013 02:23AM by bona dea.

Just curious what kind of people can afford such things.

I understand how you feel and think your friend should-be been honest, but I do understand where she is coming from. Flying to your wedding, getting a hotel, buying a dress and a gift, arranging for childcare or paying to bring the kids etc is going to cost more.than 600 dollars. If I had to chose between a quick ,stressed wedding trip and necessities or a family vacation or nice Christmas, I would probably skip the wedding too.Sometimes we have to do what is right for us and having to.admit that we can't afford something is embarrassing. I don't know your friend.and.could be wrong, bit that is.my take.

@Bona Dea: My point exactly. If you can't afford to be a bridesmaid, why accept in the first place? The bridesmaid to be did exactly that, which put MollyMisanthrope in a difficult position when the bridesmaid started with her passive-aggressive, backhanded comments--but then wouldn't come out simply say she couldn't do it. If you can't do it, then SAY you can't do it. She created a lot of unnecessary drama for the bride.

This chick is a Bridesmaid-Zilla. There oughta be a show...

I was once part of a team of bridesmaids -- the bride had eight bridesmaids. I was living in SC and the wedding was in Ohio. I was asked to attend the bachelorette party the weekend prior to the wedding.

This meant:
• I had to take a week off work;
• Drive eight hours one way;
• Buy the dress, shoes, purse and jewelry (the bride gave us earrings and the purse IIRC);
• Come up with a wedding gift;
• Come up with a bachelorette gift;
• Pay for my own drinks at the bachelorette party, plus cab fare, food, and various sundries; and
• I did my own hair but went with the bride to get manicures, but I think she paid for mine.
• Note: I had to board my dog and cat for ten days while I was drinking my way through Cleveland.
• I had to get a hotel room for the night after the wedding, as my family was too far away to drive to and I was far too hammered to even drive five minutes, and obviously, I wasn't staying with the bride on their wedding night.

The upshot is, it cost me about $1500 to be in that woman's wedding, including everything I listed above. I was delighted to spend it. For the gift, I'd made a huge cross-stitch and had it mounted and framed (turned out beautiful), and that thing is still hanging in their house today. The maid of honor, however, (cheap bitch) waited until I got into town -- one week before the wedding -- to inform me that the entire wedding party was going in together to get the bride and groom some patio furniture for their new house. She wanted another $50 or $80 from me (something like that). I recall being really pissed off that she hadn't bothered to contact me in advance or I wouldn't have spent six months working on that damn cross-stitch. I think I told her that I'd already spent $150 on the professional framing job (non-acid mounting so the cross stitch wouldn't turn yellow with age) and I'd be happy to contribute to the patio furniture, but I was only coming up with $30 and if she didn't like it, she could bite me. Great idea, but you don't wait until six days before the wedding to pitch the group gift idea to the group. In other words, the maid of honor was a bigger jerk than the bride ever was.

This was my BFF in college. We're still friends. Had I not been able to afford it, or had I not wanted to spend six months paying off my credit card (which is what happened), I would have told her sorry, but no, I couldn't participate in the first place. I would have been invited to everything anyway and short of the dress & accessories, just attending would have cost me about that much anyway. It wouldn't have been much of a savings to attend but not participate in the festivities.

And that's the difference between mormons and the rest of us: If we can't afford to do something, we politely and graciously say no. I would be writing off this friend and move on with your wedding plans and enjoy yourself!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2013 09:13AM by dogzilla.

I guess I was a cheap mormon bride???? I've always been too practical. I didn't want an engagement ring. I'd prefer to buy a washer.

I chose NOT to have any bridesmaids. My older sister had 6. (She bought all their dresses.) Of course, she had it locally since we are in Utah.

But I went to enough of my friends' weddings to know I didn't want a "line." My parents and his parents weren't even in the line. It was just the 2 of us. We held it in an outside place in the afternoon. We served a small buffet rather than the mormon stuff. The biggest expense we had was the rings--which wasn't much. We paid for the entire thing ourselves. And then went on a nice 2 week vacation to Hawaii and he took me to Disneyland for my first time. We spent our money on the honeymoon.

I worked with several nonmos from outside of Utah and in Utah at my job. They LOVED my reception and told me so.

Sure--our marriage didn't last--but our wedding was beautiful and nobody had to pay 1 red cent except us. I think it is ridiculous to expect our friends to spend $600 on OUR wedding, let alone family.

I do believe we get too caught up in the WEDDING and not the marriage. She shouldn't have accepted, but I still think it is ridiculous to expect our friends to fork out $600. If that is the kind of wedding you want, be prepared to pay for the whole thing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2013 10:23AM by cl2.

LOL it seems the bride-to-be does not even hear what most people on here are trying to tell her politely.

Which is, to stop behaving like a spoilt little girl and consider that her friends has more pressing obligations.

The husband may balk at spending $600 dollars plus incidentals for someone's wedding.
Or, she may not see why she should fork out money for a more elaborate wedding when all she had was the basketball court wedding.

Whatever the reasons, stated or not, once you realize that she she is not enthused about participating, let her off the hook nicely.

You may not be able to see it now, but once you are married with kids, priorities change.

LOL

Threads like this make me glad I'm a dude.

made-up crap and the drama that goes along with it.

I think the reason the Mormon bridesmaid didn't say no when asked is that it's how she was raised, that you never say no. Non-Mormons who know they couldn't afford the expenses of being in a wedding party have the sense to politely decline the offer.

Although I tend to think weddings sometimes take on a live of their own and overshadow the marriage, I feel that Molly is not really at fault here. It is her wedding; she invited her good friend to be a bridesmaid. If she hadn't asked the friend, Molly would have gotten a ration.

Once asked, her friend should have looked at her own situation (financial and family), which was, I should add, a result of her own life choices, and have given a definitive yes or no. This happens all the time in the real world. A polite, heartfelt, "I would love to be with you on your day, but with out family situation, I just can't do it." What's so darned hard about that? Instead, the girl whined about this and that and really made it hard for Molly. She had to make everything about hef--passive aggressive is a perfect description of her behavior.

The bridesmaid didn't act as a true friend, and instead, put Molly in a really tough spot.

Molly, go ahead and have aa great wedding, and more important, a great married life.