Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Dear Gentle Reader, It's been a couple of years since I was a regular on the board. I resigned in late 2006 if memory serves. As with all transitions, some things were lost and others gained. I'm happy with my freedom now. When I was first leaving the Church I was so blind sided by the historical facts I was learning about the Church that I figured my life long friends would want to have this information also. I could not have been more wrong. Since then, I have learned to not care whether one espouses the Mormon Church or not. I may be a crusader for issues that matter to me, but that issue doesn't matter to me that much, despite the despicable things they do with their billions.
I'm facing about 1001 issues and deadlines right now but there is this little nagging event that keeps nagging me; the proverbial thorn in my side. And so, if you have the patience, I'm going to share my little story with you tonight. It's not a dramatic one. Nobody died. Nobody took over Ewing Oil. But it was personal to me.
I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia. We like saying Commonwealth because we think it makes us feel fancy; like wearing a french cut shirt with cuff links rather than regular buttons. I am somewhat new to my old home town having lived most of my adult life in Washington, DC. A non-member friend of mine (We'll call her Sue) from high school recently relocated back here from California. I came up with an idea to have a Halloween party like we used to do in Young Adults back when the Church was fun. I was probably going to do it Mormon/man style with buying some soda and cheese puff. But her house is much larger than mine and she has ever decoration for Halloween she's ever seen. It didn't take much arm twisting for me to let her take over the party. Firstly, she was more excited than a lottery winner, secondly, I wouldn't have to clean. And boy did she go all out. There was a coffin (an actual coffin) in her front yard, orange lights, a graveyard and the inside looked spectacular. Everything with Martha Stewart style. The food was incredible. Swedish meatballs, nachos, veggies with 4 kinds of dip, A skeleton cake and my fave, cupcakes with fondent ghosts on top. I'm leaving half the stuff out.
At any rate about 2 weeks before the party, I happened to run into the missionaries on the street. I knew most of the people would be there would be my friends (Mormons) and I knew it would be a 99% dry party. When we were in young adults we always invited the elders to our parties so I thought, hey, why not invite these guys. Who doesn't want to party with a couple of goofy 20 year old guys? They fun to prank and they're good sports. I went on a mission. I loved those parties. So I invited them. I didn't expect them to come.
The day of the party, I was driving over to Sue's and I get a call on my cell. I didn't recognize it so I thought I might be business. I drive a stick so I rarely pick up while I'm driving. I heard in a very stern voice "Hello, thisisElderMasonfromtheChurchofJesusChristofLatterDaySaints.Howareyoutoday? Mason, by the way is not his real name. I thanked him and told him that I was fine. I was in a chipper mood that day. We were having a party after all. He said he'd heard that I'd requested a visit from the missionaries. I said "NO", I'd ran into the missionaries and invited them to our Halloween party. How they got my cell number, I'll never know. We should just get rid of the FBI and put these people in. So I asked again and he declined because the ward Halloween party was that night. I told him that I could get them a ride, but they would probably miss their curfew. On my mission in Japan, the curfew was more a guideline than a rule. At least that's the way we chose to look at it. Then he asked me if I was LDS. I told him that I used to be LDS but that I'm Episcopalian now. He asked me why I don't call myself a Mormon anymore. I told him that I am still a Mormon of sorts. You just don't shake that persona off. It will always be part of me. I told him that most people assume I left the Church because I am gay, but I never felt that was the reason. I had felt that the Church just got that one thing wrong and that in time they would come around and that I had searched my soul and found nothing evil in it. I then also told him that I'd been a Mormon for 35 years and I figured that was enough. That was all I could hack and the good Lord would have to take it or leave it. I laughed. He didn't.
He said he wanted to meet with me to find out why I left the Church. I told him that I didn't think that would be very productive. Since I have resigned, my understanding is that it would take a letter from the prophet to reinstate me and I didn't think ole Tommy boy would be signing that letter. Again, no laughter. To quote a line from Sex and the City, he made me feel like I was wearing petchulie in room full of chanel. He was unrelenting that we meet. By this time I had arrived at Sue's house to help make preparations for the party. I was sitting in the drive way. I told him multiple times that it just wouldn't be productive. A meeting would only serve to weaken his testimony, not strengthen mine. So finally we left it at that. And I thought that was the end of it.
Later that night, I got a call from Elder Mason. Jokingly, I said, we've got to stop meeting like this. Again, no laughter. I wondered if his parents were German immigrants. So I told him that it had been about 5 years since I'd studied Mormon history in depth but to start with, let him ask me a question and I would answer it. He had no questions. So I told him about my mission when we used to have the discussions. I told him about the many versions of the First Vision, and after that, the flood gates opened. Every night when he got home, he called me, thirsting for historical knowledge. Not being an historian, as my brother was, I did the best that I could. We talked about anything and everything. I told him that all these sources could be found in the journal of discourses and the history of the church. I told him about B.H. Roberts and the September 7. He asked me for some books to read and I drew a blank. That's a sign of old age. I told him that the two that spring to mind are "No Man Knows My History" and "An Insiders View of Mormon Origins". Later, of course, I thought of others. He wrote those down. He then told me something that shocked me. He told me that he was afraid of me. Well, that was a bit harsh considering the fact that he'd been calling me and asking me about the history and the truth. I assured him that I'm not violent, nor do I carry a grudge against the Church. I told him that he'd made a commitment and that he should serve his mission out honorably. It would be better for everyone all around if he did that. He seemed relieved and said he appreciated that. We parted in peace.
My angst in this interaction exists on several levels. I'm at the age now that I have friend with sons on their missions and they send me daily updates. I don't think I would have wanted to have met a person like me while on my mission. And I worry that he'll change the trajectory of his life. His plan was to go home, get married so he could have sex. I think I was the first person to tell him that he could have sex without being married because it gave him great pause. On the other hand, changing the trajectory of his life may mean that he waits till he's ready to get married and marries someone he really loves. hopeful
Who knows. I'm glad to be rid of him, but I can't help but worry about what he's going through. Perhaps nothing. But I could tell through all our conversations, the crack in his testimony grew wider. Perhaps he will do what we all did, stuff it under the carpet.
Thank you, Gentle Reader for indulging my story.
I'm facing about 1001 issues and deadlines right now but there is this little nagging event that keeps nagging me; the proverbial thorn in my side. And so, if you have the patience, I'm going to share my little story with you tonight. It's not a dramatic one. Nobody died. Nobody took over Ewing Oil. But it was personal to me.
I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia. We like saying Commonwealth because we think it makes us feel fancy; like wearing a french cut shirt with cuff links rather than regular buttons. I am somewhat new to my old home town having lived most of my adult life in Washington, DC. A non-member friend of mine (We'll call her Sue) from high school recently relocated back here from California. I came up with an idea to have a Halloween party like we used to do in Young Adults back when the Church was fun. I was probably going to do it Mormon/man style with buying some soda and cheese puff. But her house is much larger than mine and she has ever decoration for Halloween she's ever seen. It didn't take much arm twisting for me to let her take over the party. Firstly, she was more excited than a lottery winner, secondly, I wouldn't have to clean. And boy did she go all out. There was a coffin (an actual coffin) in her front yard, orange lights, a graveyard and the inside looked spectacular. Everything with Martha Stewart style. The food was incredible. Swedish meatballs, nachos, veggies with 4 kinds of dip, A skeleton cake and my fave, cupcakes with fondent ghosts on top. I'm leaving half the stuff out.
At any rate about 2 weeks before the party, I happened to run into the missionaries on the street. I knew most of the people would be there would be my friends (Mormons) and I knew it would be a 99% dry party. When we were in young adults we always invited the elders to our parties so I thought, hey, why not invite these guys. Who doesn't want to party with a couple of goofy 20 year old guys? They fun to prank and they're good sports. I went on a mission. I loved those parties. So I invited them. I didn't expect them to come.
The day of the party, I was driving over to Sue's and I get a call on my cell. I didn't recognize it so I thought I might be business. I drive a stick so I rarely pick up while I'm driving. I heard in a very stern voice "Hello, thisisElderMasonfromtheChurchofJesusChristofLatterDaySaints.Howareyoutoday? Mason, by the way is not his real name. I thanked him and told him that I was fine. I was in a chipper mood that day. We were having a party after all. He said he'd heard that I'd requested a visit from the missionaries. I said "NO", I'd ran into the missionaries and invited them to our Halloween party. How they got my cell number, I'll never know. We should just get rid of the FBI and put these people in. So I asked again and he declined because the ward Halloween party was that night. I told him that I could get them a ride, but they would probably miss their curfew. On my mission in Japan, the curfew was more a guideline than a rule. At least that's the way we chose to look at it. Then he asked me if I was LDS. I told him that I used to be LDS but that I'm Episcopalian now. He asked me why I don't call myself a Mormon anymore. I told him that I am still a Mormon of sorts. You just don't shake that persona off. It will always be part of me. I told him that most people assume I left the Church because I am gay, but I never felt that was the reason. I had felt that the Church just got that one thing wrong and that in time they would come around and that I had searched my soul and found nothing evil in it. I then also told him that I'd been a Mormon for 35 years and I figured that was enough. That was all I could hack and the good Lord would have to take it or leave it. I laughed. He didn't.
He said he wanted to meet with me to find out why I left the Church. I told him that I didn't think that would be very productive. Since I have resigned, my understanding is that it would take a letter from the prophet to reinstate me and I didn't think ole Tommy boy would be signing that letter. Again, no laughter. To quote a line from Sex and the City, he made me feel like I was wearing petchulie in room full of chanel. He was unrelenting that we meet. By this time I had arrived at Sue's house to help make preparations for the party. I was sitting in the drive way. I told him multiple times that it just wouldn't be productive. A meeting would only serve to weaken his testimony, not strengthen mine. So finally we left it at that. And I thought that was the end of it.
Later that night, I got a call from Elder Mason. Jokingly, I said, we've got to stop meeting like this. Again, no laughter. I wondered if his parents were German immigrants. So I told him that it had been about 5 years since I'd studied Mormon history in depth but to start with, let him ask me a question and I would answer it. He had no questions. So I told him about my mission when we used to have the discussions. I told him about the many versions of the First Vision, and after that, the flood gates opened. Every night when he got home, he called me, thirsting for historical knowledge. Not being an historian, as my brother was, I did the best that I could. We talked about anything and everything. I told him that all these sources could be found in the journal of discourses and the history of the church. I told him about B.H. Roberts and the September 7. He asked me for some books to read and I drew a blank. That's a sign of old age. I told him that the two that spring to mind are "No Man Knows My History" and "An Insiders View of Mormon Origins". Later, of course, I thought of others. He wrote those down. He then told me something that shocked me. He told me that he was afraid of me. Well, that was a bit harsh considering the fact that he'd been calling me and asking me about the history and the truth. I assured him that I'm not violent, nor do I carry a grudge against the Church. I told him that he'd made a commitment and that he should serve his mission out honorably. It would be better for everyone all around if he did that. He seemed relieved and said he appreciated that. We parted in peace.
My angst in this interaction exists on several levels. I'm at the age now that I have friend with sons on their missions and they send me daily updates. I don't think I would have wanted to have met a person like me while on my mission. And I worry that he'll change the trajectory of his life. His plan was to go home, get married so he could have sex. I think I was the first person to tell him that he could have sex without being married because it gave him great pause. On the other hand, changing the trajectory of his life may mean that he waits till he's ready to get married and marries someone he really loves. hopeful
Who knows. I'm glad to be rid of him, but I can't help but worry about what he's going through. Perhaps nothing. But I could tell through all our conversations, the crack in his testimony grew wider. Perhaps he will do what we all did, stuff it under the carpet.
Thank you, Gentle Reader for indulging my story.
You did a good job in giving him new information and getting him to start thinking. Maybe he'll actually look up a few things like you suggested. That would be great.
There's no telling how people react to this distressing (from the TBM perspective) information. At least he'll know how to contact you should he feel the need to talk about it. :)
(And btw, I am *deeply* offended that you accuse Germans of being lacking in their sense of humour! I'll have you know that I laughed at a joke only last week so january is covered! ;) )
There's no telling how people react to this distressing (from the TBM perspective) information. At least he'll know how to contact you should he feel the need to talk about it. :)
(And btw, I am *deeply* offended that you accuse Germans of being lacking in their sense of humour! I'll have you know that I laughed at a joke only last week so january is covered! ;) )
I love the way you write!
I don't think it's a negative because he kept asking for more information. It's not as though you were shoving it down his throat. If his life changes, then it's all for the better! Even though like many of us, he may go through some angst with TBMrelatives etc. for a while.
"We should just get rid of the FBI and put these people in."
Hahahahahahahahaha !!!!
Great writing !!!
BY
Hahahahahahahahaha !!!!
Great writing !!!
BY
I used to work for attorneys finding people, (among other things), and I would spend big bucks (of their's, of course) hiring skip tracers.
If I had to do it over, I'd just call a bishop or the SP and tell them the guy I was looking for wanted a visit from the mishies.
They would have been found inside of a week, for free...
These guys are better than the FBI...
If I had to do it over, I'd just call a bishop or the SP and tell them the guy I was looking for wanted a visit from the mishies.
They would have been found inside of a week, for free...
These guys are better than the FBI...
You did a good thing--wherever it takes him. He may very well be gay.
You threw him a life line--no matter what. It may be tomorrow, it may be 30 years down the road that he comes to his senses. IF he wasn't interested, he wouldn't have kept calling. It is always nice as a tbm to gain some perspective.
I was raised in Brigham City, Utah. Didn't have much exposure to nonmormons. I have to say though that my dad wasn't an over the top TBM and, after reading other threads today, I was allowed to have a best friend whose family was part member and the other was inactive. They smoked, they drank, etc., and my parents never batted an eye about this girl being my best friend--so they weren't your typical mormons.
BUT when I went to work at "Thiokol," I met A LOT of nonmormons. Some of them became my good friends and I dated several--including the guy I've been in a relationship with for the last 8 years who came back into my life. It gave me some perspective. It gave me hope in the darkest years of my life. It gave me a lot to think about over the years and I'm sure it helped me leave the LDS church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 11:56AM by cl2.
You threw him a life line--no matter what. It may be tomorrow, it may be 30 years down the road that he comes to his senses. IF he wasn't interested, he wouldn't have kept calling. It is always nice as a tbm to gain some perspective.
I was raised in Brigham City, Utah. Didn't have much exposure to nonmormons. I have to say though that my dad wasn't an over the top TBM and, after reading other threads today, I was allowed to have a best friend whose family was part member and the other was inactive. They smoked, they drank, etc., and my parents never batted an eye about this girl being my best friend--so they weren't your typical mormons.
BUT when I went to work at "Thiokol," I met A LOT of nonmormons. Some of them became my good friends and I dated several--including the guy I've been in a relationship with for the last 8 years who came back into my life. It gave me some perspective. It gave me hope in the darkest years of my life. It gave me a lot to think about over the years and I'm sure it helped me leave the LDS church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 11:56AM by cl2.
I too think you did an awesome thing. You weren't bitter and your weren't a hater so that is why it worked out so well.
I remember "hearing thing" about the church in high school and on my mission but they never came from a place of actual concern. These people were condescending and mean or were just repeating something they heard in church with no details. So why would I ask for further clarification. I wish I had!! Once I took the step and started researching myself there was no stopping or turning back. I couldn't get enough!!
THanks for sharing!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 12:50PM by luvcake.
I remember "hearing thing" about the church in high school and on my mission but they never came from a place of actual concern. These people were condescending and mean or were just repeating something they heard in church with no details. So why would I ask for further clarification. I wish I had!! Once I took the step and started researching myself there was no stopping or turning back. I couldn't get enough!!
THanks for sharing!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 12:50PM by luvcake.
I like your writing style, and you seem like a very warm, funny person.
I think it would be great if he changed the trajectory of his life based on your conversation. The more people think for themselves the better. He might stay in the church and get married and do everything he is supposed to but at least he knows there are other options and if something doesn't feel right he doesn't have to do it.
I so enjoy anti-missionary stories. Thanks for sharing yours.
Good to see you back. Great story!
Shannon
(Formerly JackMormon'sWife)
Shannon
(Formerly JackMormon'sWife)
Nice to be remembered by some of you folks. So many of you were a big help to me when I was giving up my superstitions. I remember spending a lot of fun times on here. I remember the poems and jokes, the haikus and I remember someone saying once that if you unstitch the top of the apron and fill it with cotton batting, it makes a really nice throw pillow. I also remember Benson once saying "Faster than a temple slit to the throat". Lots of good memories.
I enjoyed your anecdote. I think this young man is afraid of you because he can probably identify at some level with you. Maybe he's afriad he'll become an unbeliever. Maybe he likes your attitude towards life. Or maybe he is gay. At any rate, you've given him at the very least food for thought. I hope he finds out the truth soon.
Keep up the good work BredRabbit. =)
Keep up the good work BredRabbit. =)