it is pretty obvious now that the church is suffering a major loss of income.

last time that was a risk, major doctrines changed, blacks got the PH.

it is apparent that loss of money (as in any corporation) is motivation for change.

when the 18 mission age fails what do you think is next?

lowering WoW standards?

how about letting no mo fams see weddings?

or maybe getting way out there the BoM becomes allegorical?

these are just a few ideas that I think might see change in the next decade

Haven't they already lowered WoW standards? I understand that they've now said "we never said anything about caffeine!" The next step may be allowing iced tea.

I also believe that their main interest is in money and income. Through their various businesses, they actually have to work at it and run their companies efficiently to make a profit. Their 'church' division is a huge money-maker for them. Recruit members and require that they pay 10%+ of their income to you for life.

The only way they'll make any changes (or even consider changes) is if their income stream or current wealth is threatened, either by government fines, sanctions, reduced 'contributions', or loss of profit.

Money speaks, and LDS Corp listens.

If you try and find anything official about the caffeine announcement it's no longer there. It's been redacted.

Only SLTrib articles remain, but they now report on something that no longer exists officially.

It hasn't been completely redacted, only softened. It now reads, "Despite what was reported, the Church revelation spelling out health practices (Doctrine and Covenants 89) does not mention the use of caffeine." http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-news--getting-it-right-august-29

"The church division," love that. That's exactly what it is, just a division of the corporation of the president of TCOJCOLDS. Yes, it's the division that makes the most money and is the easiest to manage. Use tithing as extortion if people want to be with their families in the eternities and see their kids get married. It only works for maybe 10% of the 14 million, but that's a pretty good investment. Along with that they get people to work and be salesmen for them for free. It's the best corporate gig in the world.

I think garments will shrink and then become symbolic only, or only to be worn inside the temple.

The WoW can be totally rewritten to bring it up to modern health standards, 'because the people are ready now'. Then a week later there will be discoveries and it'll be obsolete again.

They'll change the rules to allow sealings anytime after civil weddings, like they do it in England. No more waiting a year. The sealing will become the big deal that everyone needs a recommend to see because they can't give up the tithing from people who have to pay up to see a temple ceremony.

Women will get to give blessings, pass the sacrament and hold a few other inconsequential callings now restricted to men. Teenaged girls will be interviewed by the RS Pres instead of the bishop.

Paying tithing by mail will result in a report to your bishop showing exactly how much you paid, and you'll be questioned more closely at settlement time.

Gays and lesbians being allowed to be sealed in the temple.

as a lesbian former Mormon, it wouldn't bring me back. It might make my family feel better, but doesn't change anything for me

You’re absolutely right.
What difference does it make if homosexuals are allowed to go to temple or not?
When the church is not true, than is the church not true even if they, the Church, the Leaders there, kindly “allow you”, to live your lifestyle how it meets your needs.

Is it a true statement?

A ) The church is not true and therefore it is ridiculous to try to adjust your life on measurements that are man made?
B ) or the church is true than you are doobt one way or the other.

It doesn't matter what they change. It was never true in the first place, it isn't true now, therefore it can never be true in the future. So what's the point of wasting your time going back and trying to believe just because they change a few things in order to win the popularity contest?

They may have to stoop so low as to making the meetings meaningful and interesting.

They will never catch up to secular norms of tolerance and empathy and equality. They have to move 60 years forward just to be up to scratch now. They are finished. They can't change that quick.

The problem is that the LDS church is not the only church "bleeding tithe payers." If the church adapts to become more mainstream, the problem is not going to be solved. Mainstream Christians are leaving the world over. People will not suddenly join the church because the Word of Wisdom is less restrictive or temple garments have shrunk. When I read comment boards, I sense that the fundamentalists and the hardliners are the real strength of the church. I think those people are who will stay and continue to pay tithing and that is the who you will see the church catering to. These are the people that are getting up this morning to go clean the toilets in the church. These are the people who will be sucked dry until the day they die--and then after as they leave their estate to the church. I think we will continue to see more of the same--there will always be a place in the world for those craving "certainty" and being told what to wear and what to eat. There will always be those who want to please God by remaining bigots and homophobes.Most importantly there will always be those who want to feel "special,"to be a peculiar people!

I don't think that the churh will change its doctrines or practices one bit.

I do think that there will be a whole lot less money for real estate investments. The temple building boom may slow. Tuition at BYU may go up. Fees that missionaries pay will go up. Ward budgets will be squeezed even more and members will be asked to do even more.

I agree that the changes will not work, the internet has ushered in and era of rational thought IMO.

but I think they will try to change things to stem the tide.

there will be lots of small discrete things, then when those aren't working bigger measures will be taken, it will probably swing from 'this isn't a big deal anymore type stuff' to we have to 'raise the bar' and get stricter to attract and keep converts.

I do know it will be interesting to watch from a I was once there point of view.

I believe that in 20 years the LDS Church becomes just an evangelical church as the rest of it. But with temples that on special occasion everyone can go to.
When I recall the church 30 years ago and today I just have to talk to my mom and her generation, they see the Church very different than young LDS families today.
Many revelations have to come.
Alcohol will be still banned. They still marry in the temple but even no mo can attend.
They will still have the priesthood but not this much weight on it as today.

It has to become a kind of, sort of LDS light.
Young people just break away especially young woman. The society had changed. Woman today are more educated than there were 20-30 years ago. The people go longer to school and universities.

If the LDS cult doesn’t change it will become a local occurrence confined to Utah USA.

Just see how much the society had changed go to youtube and watch advertising that 20 years old. Adverticing is always an indicator for social changes.

Edit:
I even think they will have a revelation just like 1978 and rewrite the D&C 132



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2013 11:54AM by buddyjoe.

hmm LDS lite....

if they tossed all the negative stuff and kept the positives would you go back?

No – why should I?
What has the LDS to offer that any of the evangelicals cannot?
Well and the Jesus religion is actually a catholic faith. The New Testament is a catholic book, the gospel is catholic. Why should I go to a copy when the original is still around?
I don’t believe in Bahaal so why should I become catholic? Why should I even think about going to a catholic faith or a catholic related faith? The Jesus religion is catholic, is Bahaal is ancient Egypt.
Opinion off.

No. Never. It is provably false and the root of so much damage to so many.
I will never go back.

Changing policy and doctrine may be more attractive to some no-mos, but it's incredibly problematic in the vast contradiction. The church isn't really built on continuing revelation but on those things that the church says will never change, the things that the apostles testify whole-heartedly about, and if those things change, it means that they were lying.

By experience:
Nothing on earth last longer as temporary fixes.
Nothing was ever more often changed than exactly the unchangeable.

broken gets fixed, shoddy lasts forever

I don't know - people like being exclusive and having something that sets them apart as special and chosen. Like having to dress modestly or not drinking coffee and alcohol. My guess is that is would be something likely to appeal to the egos of the members, that makes them feel MORE special not more ordinary. Like letting women go on missions earlier. Benefits the church because they can start the brainwashing process earlier and get more potential converts (or so they think.) But it also gives the women a false sense of equality and a chance to be "saviors" to the world (i.e. a false sense of specialness.) It will be something like that.

More demands for obedience, more worthiness requirements, more demands on time, more shame and guilt, less fun...

And that will push more people away from the church. The remaining pool of believers will be more fanatical and/or mentally ill as the reasonable people take a hike.

Ironically, the free market system the church loves so much has taught consumers to measure price vs. value. The church requires so much -- in money, time and mental health -- but gives little in return, except dubious promises of a good family and a happily ever after ending. You can get the same promises in any church at a fraction of the cost.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2013 02:15PM by Stray Mutt.

Quote:
And that will push more people away from the church. The remaining pool of believers will be more fanatical and/or mentally ill as the reasonable people take a hike.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good point ---
That means a very local group of fanatics.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2013 03:00PM by buddyjoe.

Stray Mutt Wrote:

>Ironically, the free market system the church
> loves so much has taught consumers to measure
> price vs. value. The church requires so much -- in
> money, time and mental health -- but gives little
> in return, except dubious promises of a good
> family and a happily ever after ending. You can
> get the same promises in any church at a fraction
> of the cost.

You hit the nail on the head. This is what finally drove my split with TSCC. I realized I wasn't getting anything in return for the sacrifices I was making. I was only getting guilt, shame, more toilet cleaning, and boring meetings to go to. The product they offer is vague promises of "blessings" and a sliver of hope that you "might" make it to the CK if you are really good. WTF?

At the very least, TSCC could have provided more upliftment in my life. TSCC could have provided more interesting meetings that inspire me to live a better life.

In my little corner of the world I have seen the middle to high end tithe payers leaving. I've seen more families leave one ward in the last 2 years than I've ever seen in my life time.

I should say, that they aren't leaving because they moved away. They still live here. It's the church they left, not the area.

I think a lot of it has to do with the stake president. It makes me wonder about the rest of the wards in the stake.

My ward may just be more prone to that kind of thing. For the most part, people move here in their later years. They no longer have children living with them. A lot of them are burnt out from years of church service. All it takes is one leader to give them a little push in the right direction, and they're gone.

I think the stake pres. has done more to get people out of the church than I could ever do. He's a tyrant that's been given some power. He's living his glory years.

He wouldn't even let the girls wear pants on activity night, while the boys were in jeans playing basketball.

He would be retirement age now.

Funny, I was on my mission in West Richland in 1995, and things seemed pretty laid back there. I live in Richland now, but have no idea what the local wards are like.

No major loss of income--they have enough investments to last...