Does a TBM from the Janitors up to the President have any prove that this LDS story is true?
I mean no hearsay or belly feelings. One single independent proven fact will do.
I mean asking for prove works both ways.

The problem is they do not want to hear the exmormon proof.

What about an equal opportunity? I listen to you and you listen to me. (Or the reverse)

That’s not what I mean. When I talk to a Mormon than they always tell me they KNOW something that no one else can possible know.
My father always said I should prove it to him that Mormonism is not true. But everything that I said was wrong.
He never even attempt to prove anything that he knows besides saying that he know.

How should I trust for example a TBM Banker with my retirement fund when he has such a strange way of knowing things?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 08:44PM by buddyjoe.

My dad's answer to my polite question:

"dad I have listened to and obeyed you for 25 years, can you listen to me for 5 minutes?"- said so softly, pleading almost...

HIs irrational and ANGRY retort?

"No! Because everything I say is truth and everything you say is lies!"

Mind you, he is an institute teacher and lifelong seminary teacher. I was his favorite (I could tell), until literally the day I told him I was leaving the church (because my sister threatened to tell him if I didn't- so I was forced) that day, I became a liar and a disappointment that had caused him a "week of agony where he could not eat or sleep."

And his answer to my plead;

"Dad would anything i do matter to you anymore? What if I cured cancer? Would that matter to you?"

"NO! If you weren't going to church nothing would matter to me!"

Then, less than 2 minutes later...

"I just don't understand why you don't talk to me."


It's called complete delusion.

intjsegry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "I just don't understand why you don't talk to
> me."

Translation: Why can't you just confess what really made you leave, so that we can get back on track with this church thing? What sins did you want to commit? Who offended you? Come on. Let's sit down and deal with this thing.

Just think about that banker being president...

I've never seen a TBM ask me to prove anything - they are too scared I'll able to do it.

Well between husband and wife or between parents and children? I hear often that they ask why they don’t believe. Why not turning the coin and asking them for a single independent piece of evidence for their Knowing?

No one wants to hear it - not my wife, not may parents, not my kids, not my siblings, not my friends.

I would love it if one of them had the guts to ask me why or to prove it.

I think that's a pretty good compliment in and of itself. Mormons are almost always open to throw in their little remarks and try and prove you wrong even if they can't but if they're scared to ask you...well you definitely have the upper hand.

I was told by my husband I have a "contentious spirit" and of the devil just for trying to tell him the truth tonight. He just about hates me. He KNOWS it's true. He is ready to clobber me (not technically but in his "peaceful" heart).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 08:46PM by suckafoo.

Why not asking your husband for a single shred of evidence that is independent to prove his case?

I will next fight. I'll try it and see what he says. He used feeling the spirit at his baptism (at 14, he's 44 now) as his proof "That no one. But NO ONE" can tell him isn't true.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 08:51PM by suckafoo.

The Church Name is: Church of Jesus Christ later day saints.
Jesus said:
KJB Mathew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
Why does your husband believe that Jesus had lied what would happen at the later day’s?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 09:09PM by buddyjoe.

Buddyjoe, He who has ears let him hear.
If you believed once you know why they are caught in it and why they can't listen.

I never believed. I was really lucky back than.
Why?
Well I had grandparents that taught me a lot about Christianity.
And as a Kid I observed a lot in the ward, what they do. I had always a suspicious mind because my grandpa always told me first to listen what they say and than compare what they do. Back than was this very interesting because back in the late 60ties they believed kids are to stupid to compare.

I know what you got trough, have seen it many times and hope it works out for you.
Always think that you may be not this big person but even if your candle is small you let it shine.

I tell you what. I complain and get irritated about it. It is a daily struggle in our marriage. I'm quiet most days but some days I can't hold my tongue and I let it out. I pick my battles. But I pray for my little family and ultimately it isn't up to me. So I do give it over to the powers that be. My light isn't very bright to shine. There isn't much there for God to work with but I still have hope and I put it in him. I doubt my small faith and question. But at the end of the day I pray God holds me in his hand, hides me under his wing, and never let's me go. I want my family to be whole and to not fight about religion. But things my husband says to me sometimes I am wrong to not make a stand.
I believed like he did. I can't be angry. It is the faith he was raised in and he thinks it's right. But his condemnation of me makes it difficult when he thinks I am Satan's influence in his life. I'm not the one to bring up religion. He's my judge and preacher. To be thought of as the devil's worker doesn't feel too good, buddyjoe.
P.S. I talk to my child and also tell her to be observant and that if she believes it that it's ok either way she has to come to her own way. At Christmas I talk of Jesus, I let her know about the one of the Bible and what I believe now. I think she does not believe JS was a prophet. She doesn't buy in but she still goes. Maybe I can influence her like your grandparents did you.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 03:38AM by suckafoo.

Sorry kind a long [ESL]
I’m so sorry to hear your struggles.
My grandpa for example never really interfered with the Mormon faith. When I said I know – he interrupted me and said, no Son you believe and they who tell you they know they just believe too. Grandpa always told me if man would know, we wouldn’t need Scientists and Doctors because we would know. He always told me that god loves me. Once I took his fishing rod and messed it up - real good. I took the rod and hided it. When you 9 years old you try to do such things. My grandpa told me, that whatever I do I should never hide it. Nothing good comes from things that we do in secret. He will love me always. And he told me that god loves me unconditionally. He said you cannot hate and love to the same time. But grandpa never gave me pressure and when I had a question he always took me serious even when I was 9 or 20 years old.

Your husband has the feeling he lost you. Bad news is that his entire ward feels at least sorry for him. I don’t know your family situation but he is und will be influenced from a lot of people. In addition to the influence are Mormon male very insecure. They get told when they leave the church Mr. De-vil will grab him. He is insecure because he believes that woman that leave the church become unfaithful sooner or later. Is bull, but that is what the church and the people in the ward tell him. You know the gossip in the church you know how they make their case. Gassing and assuming und making things up.

Insecurity is in my opinion the biggest problem for LDS male. They are scared to death from a relationship outside the box because they don’t know how it works and, sorry TBM males, they don’t know how to be a husband outside Church rules.
I saw it so often with friends that went trough all this. I don’t know how many nights we (my wife and I) spend with our friends with exactly the same topic.

I can tell you only how it looks like from the male side. I don’t even pretend to know how woman emotionally feel.
But I am very sorry to hear what you go trough with your family. I offer you my e-mail address for the case you just want to vent in a way that you may not want to do in public.
fiha@iname.com Let me know if you want an answer or not.

Sometimes venting and writing something down to someone unknown helps emotionally or helps to see things more clear.
I am really sad to hear your struggle because I am in a position not knowing how long my beloved wife will live. Yes I become one flesh with her like the Bible said. I followed her to Texas left all my friends, a great job over there in Germany. But I have found a real good job and truly marvelous neighbors and friends here in Texas.
A new beginning is always scary, because we will never know what the morning will bring. But do we know what will be when we stay where we are?
Like my Grandpa once said. Follow the light, do nothing in secret and never forget God the almighty loves you. He made you, why should he hate you for who & what you are?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 10:17AM by buddyjoe.

The list of proofs against Mormonism is long. Very long. The trouble is that Mormons won't look at it. They dismiss it before you've even presented it to them.

I know and you know that ex Mormons have a truck load of prove, independent prove that the LDS Church is a scam.
I turn the coin and ask TBM’s for a single independent prove as small as it may be, to prove the Church is right.
God the Almighty has nothing to hide. He puts a sign at each of his demands and actions.
So where is the prove that the LDS church has re-built something that not even existed before.

They don't have any proof. They go by feelings, and no amount of proof you try to give them means anything to them, because they trust in those feelings.

MORMONISM DOESN'T HOLD UP IN COURT:

NO EVIDENCE

NO ALIBI

LOTS OF DNA

LOTS OF SMOKING GUNS


IT ALL ADDS UP TO:

FRAUD... Book 'em Dano


Breedum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 10:16PM by breedumyung.

Their main evidence is a warm feeling they claim whenever they speak of their temples, books and such.

It never seems odd or silly to Mormons that they are coming up with outlandish claims or revelation and fantasies about ancient peoples, and then putting the burden of proof on the "investigator." The burden should always (ALways) be on the one making the claim, just as in a court of law. Now is the time to call them on it.

Exactly. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

The problem is (and this was my "lightbulb" moment when leaving TSCC) they only accept evidence that supports a pre-determined conclusion. The Church Is True, so anything that even slightly resembles support for that is proof of the church's truthiness. By contrast, anything that disproves the church's claims is a lie, because The Church Is True.

It's like deciding that eating fish fingers and custard will make you invincible. Every time you eat fish fingers and custard and don't die, you're proving that it's true! You're invincible! And if someone else happens to eat fish fingers and custard and then gets hit by a bus and dies, it's obviously because they didn't eat it right. They used the wrong kind of custard, or they overcooked the fish.

Mormons excel at matching information up with their preconceived ideas, latching on to those they can manipulate to fit their needs and discounting those they cannot.