cludgie
(I am grieved that CNN would not post my previous message because I used a word they didn't like, apparently. The "M-word," something that Mormons are obsessed with. Anyway,...)

LDS leaders are going to punish anyone who tries to ruin The Mormon Moment. We dissident and ex-Mormons should let everyone know how it works when you're a member of what is not a church, but a cult. This is a lesson to everyone how it works. Someone who notices your criticisms gets in touch with a leader, who then gets in touch with the Strengthening Church Members Committee (an Orwellian name if ever we have heard one), who then researches what the member has been doing to criticize the church and then contacts the individual's local stake president to begin enforcement by means of the "Court of Love"–another Orwellian name, if ever we have heard one. The individual's stake president then "invite" the individual to the Court of Love or "church disciplinary council," where he or she is expected to attend and be grilled by some 15 or 16 men, depending. Witnesses are never made to substantiate their story, and the Courts of Love are often carried out based totally on hear-say.

The outcome of a Court of Love is often already known in advance. Many leaders have already decided in advance whether or not the person will be excommunicated, disfellowshipped, given probation , or just given a watchful eye. They are, at the very best, totally arbitrary. One individual may get probation for being a serial adulterer, while another may be excommunicated for what Mormons call "self-abuse." And I have known one stake president to excommunicate a person for adultery, only to be excommunicated himself two months later for an extramarital affair he had been carrying out for over two years; he had been throwing people out of the church during a time when he himself stood under condemnation.

And while we're on the M-word... Only a cult would make that one of the "sins next only to murder in its seriousness." Yes, Mormons are obsessed with touching themselves, while on the other hand obsesses with making babies. Do yourselves a favor–avoid cults.

***

I think cludgie made a very important public point so no one gets the idea that a "Court of Love" is a fair trial.

Anagrammy

Yes, it is certainly not a fair trial. I have seen a member of the bishopric leave the church over a "court of love" outcome where he felt that the accused was being treated unfairly.

Great Cludgie. I love the description of the church discipline process. Nice and compact. Makes it really clear.

That is the part that should not sit well with anyone even if you've never heard of mormonism.

Try "Kangaroo Court"!

Around my neck of the woods it is pretty much assumed that any church that would do something like that to one of its members isn't a church any sane person would want to be a member of. The question of a "fair trial" isn't even part of the equation.

I know. I almost came unglued when I heard that phrase attached to an excommunication hearing by a commenter at CNN.

When non-mormons hear the word "court" they think "trial." We who have been in the Morg know that it is court with the same connection to justice as The Courtyard at Marriot.


Anagrammy

Powerful post, Anagrammy. I like your "voice." You put the Orwellian aspects of Mormonism in a clear focus. Thank the universe for George Orwell and you. If wisdom be the food of love, then write on!

Joseph ain't the only one who can paraphrase Shakespeare.

I had to take meticulous notes on a specific form that was sent to salt lake. I then filed it in a cabinet in the clerks office with all of the other forms. So being a new clerk, I pulled the file and got to read all of the juicy details from prior courts of love. Clearly there wasn't a stitch of confidentiality.

"LDS leaders are going to punish anyone who tries to ruin The Mormon Moment."

What do you think they will do to Mitt?

"The outcome of a Court of Love is often already known in advance."

This part reminded me of a chilling line from Franz Kafka, "In the Penal Colony".


" 'He doesn't know the sentence that has been passed on him?' 'No,' said the officer . . .[t]here would be no point in telling him. He'll learn it on his body.' "

http://www.theatre.colostate.edu/docs/audition-docs/colony-kafka.pdf

Plus 5 bazillion.

Great and chill quote, Twinker. Wow.

If you're reading this, don't be a stranger...

Come baaack !

The SP reminded me that he makes the rules. As the defendant, he said I had to go first with the defense before he set forth their case! Since they hadn't told me what they were trying me on, I told him it was absurd. In conference with his counselors, he did change that and said they would go first but would not tell me what they meant by "conduct unbecoming".

The only time something like this happened was in a criminal case tried to the court when I arrived for argument on whether my client was guilty and was told I didn't have to say anything, the judge was sentencing my client period! After the next time I was before the same judge and he did the same again and I filed motions to set aside because he didn't even let me argue or present testimony even after the state rested, he died and the funeral was the day my motions were to be heard!

As for my TSCC case, SP was so angry about being overturned on my "Court of Love", I think he might have had a stroke if I had not, in utter disgust (including my calling TSCC the "Church of Satan"), e-mailed my resignation to SLC with a cc to SP.

I'm glad when the church can do the work of making ex-Mormons for us Many hands make light work, I guess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 08:04AM by robertb.

Ana,

Could you remind me why I wrote this? I don't even remember what it refers to.

Also, which "M" word is disallowed? Mormon? Masturbation?

I didn't read the original article. But in understanding the Disciplinary Courts in the LDS Church, it's important to be clear about the purpose.

It's not a real court or trial. It's a confirmation in a formal setting of their previously determined outcome of what they think is in the best interest of the individual and the church.