I am so damn mad right now, I can't even see straight.

I'll try and be quick.

I have relatives coming into town for a day and they wanted to take my kids and I to dinner. I talked to the kids and told them and they were very excited. When I talked to my ex about it she said they couldn't because they have mutual that night. We ended up in an argument, her points being, well her point was it is a church thing, that's all she has....

My points are:
1. It's one fooking night, one activity! So what if they miss one thing?
2. I don't have a bunch of nearby relatives like she does, both my parents are dead and I almost never get to do things like this with my kids.
3. The kids WANT to miss Mutual and go to dinner.
4. My oldest two are 18 year old twins (seniors, one of each, that's important, so remember) Aren't 18 year olds old enough to make that decision?
5. They miss church and activities, when it's important to HER.

There were more points, I'm sure.
The one issue I can understand adding weight to her argument is that the twins are both presidents of their respective classes, laurels and priests. (See? I told you the boy/girl issue was going to come up) But, like I said, she occasionally has trips, or relatives or other things that SHE allows to interfere with church and certainly with activities.

Anyhow, I talked to them, they were excited. I talked to her, she was not. She talked to them, they were no longer excited. Not only were they no longer excited, but upset about being put in the middle of it. The only reason they were in the middle of it is because she disallowed two eighteen year-olds (plus two younger kids) to make the decision on their own to miss one fucking mutual activity to be with their father and relatives. I know this evil, black hearted woman and I know the guilt ridden lectures that she loves to give. She yells and bitches and guilts and wears them down until they give in just to shut her up.

This is the very same woman who recently (okay, a year ago, but still) married the man she was living with for FOUR years AND who she was having an affair with while we were married. I have no problem with anyone who chooses to live together, but the point is, she finally decided to live HER religion and now demands perfection and "proper" choices from those around her.

I have thus far chosen not to "hate" this evil, self righteous, controlling woman, but it's getting harder and harder.

I'm so sorry--I *really* hear you on this issue...ugh. (((hug)))

I have this same issue with my TBM ex and our 13yo daughter. I get seriously upset over these same types of situations. I wish I had some advice, but I just keep trying to stay calm and supportive to my daughter and hope she will someday see the cult for what it is.

At some point, these women have got to get it that they cannot behave this way. Abusive, controlling, arrogant behavior cannot be tolorated.

I suggest getting the book by Patricia Evans..."Controlling People", handing it to her and telling your grown kids to get the heck as far away as possible from her.

I so hear you.

I feel your pain. I have wondered if TBM ex's like yours (and mine) who are extremely controlling were that way before the church rooted its way into them or if it is learned behavior amplified by their spouse leaving the church.

It's difficult to understand how I fell for such a controlling person in the first place.

As your children are over 18, you no longer are required to ask you spouse's permission to take them anywhere ..They are adults --Just phone them and say "I will pick you up at 6:30 to go out to dinner with your relatives "" No explanation is needed or should be offered to the spouse. By the way get them cheap cell phones so they can keep in touch with you without the spouse's oversight.

JB
P.S. -- You can you tell I have been through this

On many levels. She lived with her boyfriend for 4 years, cheated on you, and now she is a TBM. I just love it (sarcasm). Just curious--did she go through the repentance process?

I wish I had some good advice for you. As for Jesus Smith--I'm pretty sure they are just born this way and mormonism takes it to the next level. Many keep saying that women are second class citizens in mormonism. Not for women like these. They use things like your priesthood and not living up to it as a weapon. I think in some ways men are more at a disadvantage in mormonism than women.

Sorry to say that my friends who were like this married LONG before I did--they know how to play the game, how to get their man and then turn into a bitch when they get married.

My ex had full access to our kids 24/7. I never put limitations on him. And, of course, I wasn't active mormon so that wasn't an issue.

I've been through this, as well.

One way to possibly trump her is to contact her bishop, and explain the situation, emphasizing 'extended' families are forever and that sort of thing. If her bishop is not a [expletive deleted] (thus, in the minority of LDS bishops), he may agree that it's OK for the two adult children to miss one mutual activity. Relay this information to the Ex (or ask the bishop to call her). These types of people will do what bishops say, when reason, logic, and sense of fairness fail.

Can you and your relatives get together with the kids in the afternoon after school? That should give you at least 2 or 3 hours with them before their church thing. That takes away your ex's objection.

Yes she's being unreasonable about the kids missing church stuff. But your main goal is getting your kids together with their relatives, not just eating dinner.

We ended up going to dinner early that evening. We had a wonderful time and thoroughly enjoyed each others company.

I am still upset that such a big deal had to be made of it, all because I wanted to interrupt a silly mutual activity, even by mutual standards it was pretty unimportant, attendance-wise. Simply an introduction of the new theme for the year, a theme the two oldest won't even be participating in once they graduate.

I am not sure if I am more upset with her for being son damn stubborn just because it was a church versus me thing, or if I am more upset with myself for allowing it to get to the level it did just to prove that point. I knew it had a solution that was not perfect, or what I wanted, but would work. I let it get completely out of hand because I tire of being relegated to third place behind her and the cult.

Oh well, must look at better ways of dealing, I suppose.

Glad it turned out ok. I've been in your shoes and yes, it really sucks when an ex thinks the cult trumps everything else.

I've learned I have to be extra patient with the ex about stuff like this. Eventually, she comes around but has to work through the "church is more important than anything" ideas that clutter her rational thinking skills.

It's best to give the ex ADVANCE WARNING about these things...don't wait til the last minute.