Other thread closed before I hit post:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,758229

One point to consider: when deciding if we should stay together, my wife and I went to some counseling. Her counselor said that most women who marry gay men typically have some reason why they did it, which should be addressed before they pursue new relationships. (My wife did.)

This is a really tough situation with no easy answer but I'd like to share my experience as someone who was also married to a gay man and who did choose divorce.

I have been divorced from my gay husband for 2+ years and it hasn't been easy.We actually separated a year and a half before the divorce was final. The separation time was very tumultuous and for about 6 months to a year of that time he basically disappeared. During that time my youngest was only a baby and having to take care of my kids and get back out into the workplace was very challenging. All I wanted was for him to come back and help me raise the kids. Doing it all on my own was too hard (and I don't live near family). Financially I wasn't in a position to become a single mom, I had been a stay at home mom, so that made things all the more difficult for me. But, it sounds like that's not an issue for you. Anyway, eventually he came back and started to be more involved with the kids.

Despite all that, it has been hard for me to give up the "dream" of having an in-tact nuclear family for my kids. I often wish I could still give that to my kids. So I have gone out of my way to get along with my ex and be very accomodating so that he is and continues to be involved in their lives on a daily basis. This has meant having a rather unconventional arrangment--we still basically live together (he spends the night at friends' 3 nights a week or so). There are many reasons why we have chosen this that I won't get into here, but the two main ones are financial and logistical. It's just easier and more convenient for him to see the kids this way. In fact, he takes care of them when I am at work so that I don't have to pay for daycare (he does a lot of work from home). And has been very involved with them. So we are basically like roommates and while it seems odd to many, it has worked for us so far. I don't know how long we will continue with this arrangement. It hasn't been perfect and I've made sacrifices for this to work, I'll even admit there are times I wish he'd just find his own place to live, but at the end of the day, having his help with the kids is all I care about (having done it truly on my own for nearly a year was an eye opener and I'm glad to have his help, I have no shame in saying that). Sometimes I think we should continue to live as roommates until they graduate from HS because it does provide a certain amount of stability, but I doubt it will work out that way. I'm sure eventually one or both of us will get into serious relationships and things will change. But until then, I'm glad that we have been able to maintain a friendly relationship while co-parenting our kids.

Now this of course is just my experience and I'm not suggesting it'd work for you, but I wanted to share. There are lots of different options and sometimes the less conventional ones work best. If you think that you guys could continue living together in order to co-parent your son, but basically be roommates, that might be the way to go.

I'd also like to say that I agree with those who said that you shouldn't base your decision to get divorced on your current relationship with this guy. You should decide based on whether or not your marriage is really over. Things with this guy may or may not work out. You're in a vunerable position and after having been with a gay man for so long, it's natural that you would feel drawn to a man who finds you sexually attractive. I'm not saying your feelings for him aren't genuine, I'm just saying you don't know how it will play out long term...

Anyway, whatever you decide I hope it works out best for all of you--you, your husband and your son. Best of luck.

reason she married someone gay? She didn't know, did she? Or maybe she did. Of course, none of the spouses really understand what they are up against.

Since I knew--and not just that he had the "inclination," but that he had been very sexually active before I married him, my #1 reason was to save him as they had told me he was damned. All their insanity just made us closer--we shared a secret and very few knew.

BUT years later, having grown up in the lds church in a family where my dad wasn't very active and my mom was socially awkward (her parents were both deaf)--I already felt like a second-class citizen, though I have all the qualifications for being mormon royalty--(I didn't even know there was such a thing). I was over the top TBM and all my friends who had been kind of "loose" were all married. All the men I worked with couldn't figure out why I wasn't married. I did date several nonmembers--but mormons didn't seem to like me. The singles ward bishop even told me I was too "hot" to not be married yet--I was 25 when I met my husband. So--I had determined in my own mind that there was something defective about me. AND I thought that since he was defective, then he could accept me as defective. My exmo therapist and I came to this conclusion--well I did and he agreed. Mormonism really does mess with your mind.

There were many reasons I married him--one being getting the leaders out of our lives.

I was separated 9 years before I started dating my boyfriend--and I never planned on looking unless this guy (my boyfriend) became available.

She knew I had "SSA," which was as much as I had admitted to myself. (As a TBM, surely I couldn't be *GAY*.)

In her case, working with her counselor, she's concluded it was because of her abusive father. She lived in fear of his wrath and was constantly belittled. So for her a gay guy felt "safe" in ways that a straight guy couldn't.

She's working through it, and is really excited to actually experience REAL intimacy in a way we simply couldn't achieve together.

I tend to see gay men as "safer" to be friends with. With straight men, there's always the danger of them getting the wrong idea. I can make jokes about sex all day long to a gay man without worrying that he'll start hitting on me. I can get totally drunk with a gay man without any worry about being taken advantage of. I wouldn't choose a gay man as a romantic partner, but I do prefer them as friends over straight men because it's guaranteed not to become anything more than friendship.

To the OP -- as an older woman, you might never again get an opportunity for happiness that's as good as this one. I would go for it. You've paid your dues.

Kids are adaptable. As long as your son has two attentive parents in his life, he should be okay. Remember that a number of his peers have divorced parents. He won't be the only one. And in about a decade, he'll be out of the house and pursuing his own life anyway. Then what will you be left with?

I think that you deserve truly heterosexual sex for once in your life. I think your eyes would be opened.

My friend had the same problem. The GA's actually told her to stay with her gay husband to cure him. . . Okay. She finally left him when he got arrested in a public place and the whole ward found out. He eventually died from AIDS.

Are you concerned about your health?

My friend eventually remarried a wonderful man and she says the sex with her new hubby is nothing like it was with her gay husband.

I think you both need to move on. . .but still be great parents.

Anyone over 40 will tell you life is too short. I've known my husband since I was 18 years-old and I still want more time with him.

Loving is the best part of living!!! Enjoy it.

I just saw this thread...I am also the ex wife of a gay man.Waited for him while he "had" to serve a mission after we got engaged, temple married him weeks after he got home...etc.

To the OP, I also thought something was wrong with me because I wanted sex and he didn't. It was difficult from the beginning of our marriage, like yours. I never knew or suspected he was gay until he told me one terrible day in 1992. It just had never been part of my thought process.AT ALL.

You deserve to find your bliss.

He deserves to find his bliss.

A mixed orientation marriage is so, so hard to maintain.

Are you in UT? There are quite a few of us around.

There is life after divorce. I have never regretted it. We can still talk and we get along ok.

As Carol Lynn Pearson told me, "you are in a club you never asked to join, and there are far too many people in the mormon church that this is happening to."

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear about your difficult predicament, but in my mind, you deserve a real, fulfilling marriage, and I think that you and your children would be better off if you had one.

I'm also quite worried that your husband may have had sex with other males throughout your marriage, thus imperiling your health without your even knowing it. (But this is only speculative, and needs to be confirmed.)

The real question in my mind is this. If you divorce him, might he attempt (or commit) suicide--and if he did, could you live with that? Would it destroy the rest of your life? Or, what if you divorced him, he contracted HIV, and died of AIDS? Would you go through the rest of your life telling yourself, "If only I hadn't divorced him, he'd still be alive and safe!"?

Neither of you asked for marriage in the actual circumstances that you found yourselves. Your husband is gay. You're straight. The Church is fraudulent. But you are in this situation. Given the facts, what's the best option?

In my mind, unless there's good reason to fear that your husband would self-harm (whether through promiscuous sex with other males, by suicide attempt, etc.), then I think that you should go through with a divorce after talking with him. It's important to communicate and be honest about your needs, beliefs, values, and expectations for your own life. You deserve more than what you've gotten, and so does your husband.

It's difficult, but I urge you to take the next step toward your freedom, and happiness. Otherwise, as time passes, aging, itself, will rob you of options, and you'll always have regrets lingering in your mind: "If only..." and "What if I had..?"

Be strong. Stand up for yourself.

Life really is too short. You deserve joy.

Best Wishes,

Steve

Thank you so much for all of your comments and concerns. I really appreciate it.

In answer to some of your questions, no, my husband has not engaged in male/male sex outside of the marriage. As long as he had engaged in protection, frankly, if he had engaged in male/male sex, a part of me would be relieved. I wouldn't feel quite as guilty about my current situation. Although my friend (I will refer to him as Brad) and I have not had full-on intercourse, we have gone much farther than we should have. My husband is so TBM that even though he has admitted that he has "SSA" to me, he is in denial about it really being a problem in having a successful marriage. What he is concerned about is the image. And, frankly, I blame the Church for that. As long as everything looks cozy on the outside, and you are living the "perfect Mormon family" dream, all is well. I would not be a bit surprised if, after we divorced, he did not marry another LDS woman. That is how far the denial goes.

I do love Brad, and I think that we could be very happy together. He is very attentive, and beyond the physical attraction, we have many things in common, and are good friends. He is also very accepting of my children, even though he has not met them yet.

One concern is that Brad is 66. He is older than I am. My husband and I are both the same age, 48. Brad is in good health, but of course, this could change. Therefore, I don't know how many years I will really have with him, and I may be putting my family (and myself) through a tremendous amount of hell for the possibility of a few years of happiness.

I know this probably sounds very selfish and calculating, but there it is.

I have to admit I understand. You've been doing this for 26 years, and, sadly, it's not likely to get better. In fact, it will probably get worse faster and faster. :(

Divorce can be gentle, especially if you both agree that there's no future in this relationship.

It's almost too bad he's never experimented. I didn't either, while TBM, probably because I knew that once I'd done it I'd never succeed in hetero marriage. (I didn't succeed anyway, of course.)

Thank you again, so much, guys, for your kind thoughts and concerns.

I am weighing things very carefully.

I am also trying to be conscientous about the financial side to all of this, and, am probably a bit calculating when it comes to that as well.

I am currently teaching for a college part-time. I have been on part-time faculty for the past 10 years, but there are no current openings for full-time faculty in my current field. There are other colleges and universities in my area, but it is very competitive. I do have feelers out, and several technical recruiters have called me, but I am still looking for full time employment, and would like to have that in place before I attempt anything. Right now, I am not making enough on my part time salary to survive on my own. I know that we will likely have settlements, etc., but I don't want to be in a position where I can't support myself. Brad, the man who wants to marry me, is out of work right now and is also looking. He has a really good lead, and is waiting to hear about a lucrative job offer as a Campaign Manager for a congressional candidate. He will know at the end of the month if this is going to pan out. Basically, as long as the candidate decides to run, he has the job. Once he has some money coming in, he can afford to help pay for some of my moving expenses, etc., and we can look for a place together.

none of us are 18-23 year olds getting married in the temple- with no money & without. So don't do it again.

most people who are getting divorced, prepare for, well years. Getting training job leads saving money before they leave (unless there is physical abuse.)

no I don't think anyone has to or ought to or 'should' stay married. When you go is up to you though- and it should be planned fiscally financially. I don't think leaving to be with someone who is unemployed and you being part time employed makes sense. If it makes sense financially- and you will not risk dire poverty homelessness etc. only then would moving out make sense. You can live separately in the same residence. you do NOT have to make another ideological leap (like a temple marriage) certainly not into impovershment.

and no I wouldn't have the argument of a life time and walk out because my unemployed lover has a great lead he's waiting to hear on. Isn't it safer financially to enjoy your lover or become a lover rather than plan to change just to marry someone you haven't been a lover to? What if he's not that great in bed? or is he? YOu already spend time with someone who is (or used to be) great to talk to. Where's the proof the evidence that the 62 year old meets your needs?

maybe living separated in the same space a while, or planning financially for separate living eventually- withOUT planning on the fiscal input from any 'roommate' is in line-
and see about that lover mean time. if he satisfies or not.

I want you to experience being wanted- you can have that- without being impoverished or taking clear financial risks. that's my opinion it may be worthless but that's my opinion. if your talking and its hot sexy talking does he walk the walk. or is he another dud fine fun finding out.

don't give away your furnishings and land for the right to find out that right is inherent you are fully human. keep your stuff keep your house make your spouse a room mate like apparently he always was & find out. but for gosh sakes don't move out into unknown with a guy who hasn't even been your lover or lover very long who isn't employed *unless his retirement is as big as a paycheck. I mean I'm not getting it I think you need to switch up. comfort love you should get it all.

Make your spouse wear a condom when you are together (in case he lies regardless of him being tbm)

is that what you mean?

Does gay or his term same sex attraction mean avoiding distancing at breakfast, lunch, no snacks, no walks, walking away, cold shoulder?

or does it mean talking while shopping? standing cooking? shouldering you aside from 'his' sink or cutting board fighting for a spot in the kitchen he is so into it? galloping through gourmet sections taking turns cooking? him separating sorting your laundry?
he's REALLY into your life, not just monetarily, indespensible
oh like a household artifact?

or do you mean he is not standing at your back he is not your friend much less your best friend?

what does it mean besides sexually. what is the stance or distance emotionally communicatively within which you dance.

that is essential to assess when making decisions such as what you discuss. Best to you in all you choose & all you do

Just checking in on this thread again. I appreciate the comments. Thank you again, everyone.

I have a job interview on Tuesday for a full time Web Designer position so we will see how that goes.

I have also worked out a budget so that as long as my part time teaching position at the college survives the grant evaluation, my friend who wants to marry me and I could live fairly comfortably on my salary plus his social security. However, he is still waiting on a couple of different campaign manager possibilities. He also has his law degree and has some private practice cases in the works.

I will not jump into anything, and still have no plans to make any type of move for another six weeks or so.

I am in the process of saving up some money for independent expenses as well.

My dad was sixteen years older than my mom. They loved each other and had a good marriage. He died at age sixty-three, however, leaving her a young widow.

So yeah, the age may become an issue at some point. Or not. As long as you know you can make it on your own, you should be okay. My mom's main problem is that she was very, very dependent on my dad. She was lost when he died. Have your own source of income, emotional self-sufficiency, and your own friends and interests, and you should be okay.

For what it's worth, I'm gay and I think you should consider divorce. I spent a lot of years trying to be a good heterosexual mormon male. Thankfully I didn't go as far as getting married. I finally gave up trying to be something I'm not and gave up mormonism altogether. Now I'm living a truly authentic life with a great guy and I couldn't be happier.

I imagine you'll be quite a bit happier if you were to be in a relationship where both parties are honestly attracted to each other.

As I said, I never married and had kids, so I'm not a subject matter expert. But it seems to me you'd be setting your son a better example by showing him what an honest, happy relationship looks like. I'm sure on some level your son understands that your current relationship isn't quite right. Do you want to raise him with the expectation that the type of relationship you're in now with your husband is the best he can hope for?

Just my two cents ...

I am heterosexual and so is my husband. We love each other but, none the less, we have never had great sex.

I think he is more attracted to me than I am to him. He's out of shape and unskilled in the art of lovemaking. We cant do anything without Viagra. I never initiate anything because I'd rather have no sex than bad sex.

We've been married a long time and he is such a good man, but I miss those old boyfriends who were great lovers. They were great lovers but, would have made lousy husbands. It's a trade off.

Can you ever have it all?

In my experience, no, you cannot have it all. I've dated some really great guys and I've had some really amazing lovers. I don't think I've ever managed to find a great guy who is also a great lover. Perhaps my communication skills are really horrible, or I attract selfish jerks, I dunno. I hope eleventy hundred people come in here to prove me (us) wrong and tell us fantastical tales about being blissfully married to their best friends who are also fantastic lovers. For me, that is still an elusive fantasy. But people claim they have that. :: shrug ::

No, you can't have it all. But, having been a gay man in a straight marriage, this is not a reasonable comparison.

It's not just about the sex, although we tried to convince ourselves of that for many years. This was the message that we were taught through the church and church-endorsed therapists. They want you to think it's just like a heterosexual marriage with a poor or non-existent sex life and that is a harmful, rotten lie.

You and he are biologically incompatible on a sexual, emotional, and spiritual (pick your favorite term there) level. That's nature. You've done remarkably well to stay together given that natural incompatibility, but you will never have the sexual, emotional, and spiritual intimacy that a heterosexual couple is capable of having. If you're fine with that, that's certainly a choice that can be made... but it's very different than the straight couple down the street who hasn't had sex in years.

My ex and I are still best friends. I am extremely compatible with her on every level and we have a genuine love and appreciation for each other. But the truth is that by staying together we both gave up HUGE opportunities to grow and be the complete human beings we should have been.

I can't give you advice on whether to stay together... I suggest that you talk to him, as difficult as that me be and have a "where do we go from here" dialogue. However, please don't let him or others (as well-meaning as they may be) sell the lie.

A gay or straight person denies and surrenders much of their humanity and soul by choosing to commit their love and life to someone who is fundamentally incapable of returning that humanity in kind.

Sorry, kind of soap boxy, but I'm so sad that, despite DECADES of evidence, the church continues to destroy its member's lives by glorifying mixed-orientation marriages. It's cruel and evil.

Not me Wrote:
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> Can you ever have it all?

I think that people are individual packages. In art terms, a Van Gogh painting is different from a Chagal, and both are different from a Picasso.

I think you need to ask yourself, what is essential, and on what can you compromise? When you compromise, how much will you do so?

I had two lovers who were outstanding, but probably neither one was a great match for me on a compatibility level (although I thought otherwise at the time.) But I also had a couple of great friends who were also decent in bed. I think its doable to find a good match if not a perfect match.

Well said, Takafumi!

Ah wow, I had to go and see this post just as I'm thinking about getting back together with ex-boyfriend (on whose computer I found gay porn...)

I'm sure it's just Mormon Jesus intervening :) Do you have his number?...

Are you prepared (financially, emotionally, however) for what happens if his facade crumbles quickly and HE decides he wants a divorce right away? You should try to steel yourself for the possibility of him deciding tomorrow that he can't live a lie anymore. I know you think it's unlikely, and maybe it is, but just try to remember that there's something inside of him desparately trying to break out, and it could happen at any time and you'll need to be ready to take care of you when it does.

Everyone that I've heard/known who's gotten divorced has pretty much said so. BUT, I know a lot of people who have gotten divorced and now, four, five years later, they are thriving. Some have new relationships. They're doing right by their children. Some people bounce back even sooner than 5 years. Usually it's because they work hard at the transition.

IMO, divorce is inevitable for a gay/straight marriage. Of course, it does get complicated, and everyone is different. There may be people who are more bi than gay, and they may be able to stay married. But I believe that a true gay/straight marriage is doomed.

I think it is harmful that anyone in the church advocates entering into a gay/straight marriage, knowing all the pain they have caused - everyone, kids, families. It's harmful that there are no options for GLBT members to have families, marriages, lives.

Fish or cut bait. With that said, there are better ways to separate and divorce. There are better ways to handle it with the kids. I've heard "The Good Divorce" is worth reading.

Life is short. It's true that your husband (or you) could become suicidal over this. But they could also become suicidal staying in an unfulfilling marriage. But I'm just some yahoo on the internet - I'm not living anyone else's life - so take what I say with a grain of salt.