There is definitely a societal trend towards later maturation, it's been noted in numerous studies and serious journalistic articles worldwide over the past few years. There seems to be a lot of agreement that the economic situation over the past several years has contributed to that.

That being said and going back to Mormons in particular, I have to say, duh?!!

If you are never allowed to make your own choices and deal with the consequences, your behavior is controlled by fear and peer pressure (in the best of circumstances, it can and often does become much more overt, unfortunately), you do not learn how to make decisions.

When you are told to avoid and ignore any and all materials that may cause you to question the rhetoric you have been taught, when critical thinking skills are actively opposed, your ability to make rational adult decisions has obviously been compromised.

Mormons are taught to let the church make all the major decisions for them. Stuff like which house to buy, what to wear, what color to paint the kitchen, they're allowed to make those decisions. Who to marry, whether to have children, stay at home or work, go to church or not, the existence of God, whether to have a beer or not, how to handle your finances, how much to donate and to which charity, those are far too important issues to be entrusted to an individual. Just do what "the prophet" says and all will be well.

Are mormons infantizilized? Uh, yeah.

I've written about this before but I remember sleeping over at a TBM friends house during 7th or 8th grade. Everything we did was "silly" She chased her younger brothers and sisters around the house for a few hours and then we went to her bedroom where she proceeded to try and tickle me until I fell asleep. It was stupid and I never hung out with her again after that night. I remember calling my mom at 7am sharp just so I could bail ASAP. We just had nothing in common and she was so childish about everything I didn't know what to do. It was like babysitting without getting paid.

Sorry, I had to edit because I typed the original on my phone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2013 10:11PM by Tupperwhere.

I had a similar experience in 7th grade except I actually left in the middle of the night b/c I couldn't take it, was it a slumber party? Wonder if we were at the same one? Wouldn't that be a hoot!

there were just two of us unless you were one of her siblings lol

Nope, different experience then. Too funny!

lol that would have been perfectly delightful to JS if this were the 1800's :) no worries

"If you are never allowed to make your own choices and deal with the consequences, your behavior is controlled by fear and peer pressure . . . When you are told to avoid and ignore any and all materials that may cause you to question the rhetoric you have been taught, when critical thinking skills are actively opposed"

This is why I keep coming here. It really is like therapy :) I suffer from the Mormon Peter Pan Syndrome myself. Mormon life is a very sheltering and stifling way to live.

It's like the Mormon society isn't encouraged to grow past the junior high phase.

You are right, because teens after the Jr high level tend to rebel and go outside of their previous limits. It's a normal push towards independance which TSCC tries to retard in every way possible (being a little allegorical here, if it's not obvious).

I think we're all in recovery at some level, otherwise, we wouldn't be here. : )

This kind of behavior from TBM parents has been around for decades & decades. My TBM grandfather who died at 94 several years ago was treated by his TBM parents like he was retarded because he wasn't as academic as they were. They treated him like a child no matter how hard he worked. My TBM grandmother on the other hand was so much more mature than he was simply because she was the one that ran her TBM parents' household from the age of 10 because they both worked - her mom was a shopkeeper & artisan, & her dad was a shepherd.

Then when my grandparents had their own kids, they treated almost all of them like babies no matter what they did. They only treated the 2 oldest ones like normal adults. My mom was emotionally abused by her dad so badly she had bulimia for decades, which has wrecked her health. She had to live with her parents even though she was making good money, because only 'whores' would live on their own. So, she lived with them until she got married in her 30s. They also stopped a younger son from having a career as an artist; practically forbid it. & they infantilized my mom's youngest sister to the point where she is childish & obsessed with Disney princesses & garbage like that, despite the fact that she's a middle aged career woman. & Yes, all 3 are still TBMs.

Oh, wow. Wish I didn't have similar stories to tell in my own fam. So sad and pathetic.

Thank you for this thread. I grew up knowing my strength and intelligence was not okay. That I needed to quiet my opinions. That women who voiced theirs were unfeminine. The ultimate of slams. I remember the day my father-in-law said, "You are smarter than my son. You must be careful to never show it." And also the day that he told me I was "strong-willed". It wasn't a compliment. What? As opposed to weak-willed?

Thing is, I'm pretty much the most feminine person I know. I didn't wear pants until 5th grade. I'm naturally submissive. My voice is THAT voice ya'll are talking about. I hate the sound of it. I hate that I always give in. I've done it my whole life. I've moved over my whole damn life. I have gone after few of my dreams and always felt guilty for it any time I have--like there is something wrong that I would want fulfillment on my own.

Feeling flawed, I felt relieved when I discovered an original copy of Fascinating Womanhood in my twenties. I started following it to a T. Right down to poka-dots and "child-like anger". I remember the day my father-in-law told me how much more attractive I'd become lately. I was both flattered and angry. Be dumb and be loved.

Anywho, I needed this thread. Sometimes I'm exhausted at the pointless talk between women in the church. They talk about NOTHING...and I have felt wrong for noticing. Too prideful. Too different. I must be the wrong one. Thank you for acknowledging that I TRY to be a Disney princess. I TRY to fit in...but that I shouldn't try. That it's ridiculous. That it is okay to be more. That it's okay to be brilliant and sexy and think and do more than hang a new wreath on the door. Thank you.

Oh my! It is so interesting to hear you folks reflecting my life experience... of not being allowed to show my intelligence. And certainly to let a man feel he is more intelligent than I am. Even when he was boring me out of my mind with his "superiority complex."

I had two malignantly narcissitic siblings (I say "had" as I have divorced them so to speak). And anyways I was always told to not out shine them in subtle and in not so subtle ways I was sabotaged just for trying to develop myself as an individual. And of course they both labeled me the "dumb little sister."

I was so shocked and in awe when I went to the University and our class had IQ tests. It turned out that I scored the highest IQ in the class. And it was pretty darn high! I sat there in utter disbelief!

I wonder what I would have done with my life if I had been encouraged to explore my possibilities. I would have been more aware of my inteligence, and certainly able to express myself in happy and fulfilling ways.

I didn't realize how many of the traits I experienced from family were linked to mormonism. It is an eye opener that so many of you were experiencing the same things.

And I love that you mention "Fascinating Womanhood." I read that book and it worked. I became quite popular with the guys and the princess in YW... until I couldn't stand the "game" anymore. Which, is all it was. And I later realized that it is training in how to date and marry a narcissist who seeks out people who reflect his superiority back at him. And yes, I married him. It's all very destructive.

I followed the advice from "Facinating Girlhood". I remember a passage where you were supposed to create a situation in which you could be girlishly afraid and cling to "your man". The example was ask to go boating and then say you are afraid of water / waves. So very, very dumb.

I have never heard of this "Fascinating Womanhood" book. But I have come across "The Rules," which is basically a guide to playing hard to get, and/or petulant.

I agree: it'll work in catching yourself a man, all right, but it'll be the kind of man you deserve for using those tactics.

P.S. The Kama Sutra has a section like this, too. It's addressed to prostitutes...

Oh, FreeMe, I empathize with you in so many ways, while not sharing all the same experiences.

I too was always told to subvert my intelligence and strength, both overtly and in more suble ways and I am not naturally submissive. This caused me all sort of drama and trauma growing up as resisted being valued for LDS approved virtues (looks, crafts, niceness and sweetness) rather than who I was and what I could do.

A bishop actually told me during an interview when I was called as a MIA Maid pres (seriously, what kind of organization encourages older men to spend one on one time with fourteen year old girls? Really?!!) that I didn't really need to worry about school because I was pretty. I had voiced concern about the time requirement because of homework, babysitting (I spent most of my free time caring for my siblings and others when I could to earn $$), track and volleyball.

It infuriated me but at the time I just didn't know what to do with my anger or where to go. All I knew was TSCC and it's culture, where women have no options. I grew up watching my mom model the hopelessness and frustration inherent in the position, so it took me a while to figure out I could do it differently.

For so many years after I had my first child and tried so hard to fit into TSCC I felt exactly the same way. I would listen to these women and want to scream. "There are people dying in Serbia right now!" I remember thinking that during one particularly inane RS discussion (yep, dating myself).

The very idea that you should limit yourself to being the LDS version of a Disney Princess is disgusting and demeaning. Any group or organization that promotes this is obviously anti-equality and anti women.

You are so much more and deserve to reach the full potential of who you are. Don't settle. I hope you make it out sooner than I did. The time I spent trying to fit into the horrifically demeaning cookie cutter shape demanded to be accepted is something I deeply regret.

One of the many LDS oxymorons I have come to understand since then and one of the first that really helped me, is this thought that came to me one time when I was really stressed and praying for help to cope, "if God created all of us, if he had wanted us to be the same, wouldn't he have made us all the same?" Since I firmly believe in inspiration, whether it is from God, your subconsious, intuition, whatever, I took it seriously.

Granted, still not quite sure where I stand on the God question, but, regardless, the push to fit into the Mormon Mold just doesn't make sense. Don't let it control your life!

Brownie, hang in there and be patient with the learning curve. It's always hard to learn new things, especially after a lifetime of being sidelined. Take it one day at a time, don't be afraid to ask for help from those who truly want you to succeed and, again, be patient with yourself! You can totally do it!

It is so much easier to control people if they are told they must be childlike and obey and to not think because the thinking has already been done (did Dallin Oaks say that?). That is why many Mo's are passive-aggressive and immature.

Growing up, I was never allowed to think for myself. My AS***le dad would say that it was ok to beat women because they needed to be taught to obey.

I remember sitting in Sac Meeting years ago when the BP announced that so and so family left the church and Ward members were cautioned not to talk to members of that family. My first thought was "who are you to tell me who I can and cannot talk to?" I could not believe the level of TSCC control.

I can definitely see this with some of my cousins. Although adults and married, they act like 14-15 year olds. When I go over for family BBQs my cousins won't do anything to help and ask/tell their mom to do everything for them. At one of these events, the trash bag was overflowing. I was in the kitchen with one cousin (19 and married), her mom was in the living room visiting. I asked my aunt where the garbage bags were so I could get a new one out. My cousin then proceeded to yell to her mom that she needed to come get a new trash bag. I thought, "you're standing here next to me, why can't you get it?"

Another time my aunt was really sick, at the time all of her kids were teenagers. My aunt told me that although she was sick she had to make dinner or the kids wouldn't have anything to eat.

In my experience, the more "Molly Mormon" someone is, the more immature that person is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2013 10:14AM by mistydiamond.

...trying to assimilate my mid-thirties juvenile self into normal adult society...and, at mid-life with all the adult responsibilities suddenly thrust upon me rather than learning organically is sometimes just too much.stupid cult.
It's quite like having the rug ripped out from under my feet. And I judge myself harshly for not knowing things I 'should' know as an adult. Any suggestions? I feel like Rip Van Winkle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2013 01:46PM by brownie.

Joe Rogan is a great observational comedian, a lot like George Carlin.

Careful, strong language: http://youtu.be/tpogEkrV9wQ?t=53s

One of the greatest lines in this acceptance speech (when getting his black belt in Jiu Jitsu) is:

In life we can distort our perception of things in order to make ourselves more comfortable, on order to make ourselves accept where we are. And there's a lot of people out there running round in life full of sh*t.

He goes on and talks about how Jiu Jitsu makes him a better man, and how it makes him face reality.

T-Bone

My teenage daughter who was BFFs with her TBM cousins until we stopped going to church (which was right after she turned 8), has since only *occasionally* been invited to their parties and such. She always starts off excited, but comes home annoyed because of their immature activities, limited topics of discussion, and their constant uploading of stupid photos of themselves on Instagram. She thinks they're really wierd now, and she's always glad to come home.

One of the favorite things I've heard kids say is:

"You're not the boss of me!"

I've heard a lot of them say it over the years. I don't think anyone taught it to them.

Good words to live by.

@T-Bone: Thanks for the Joe Rogan clip - here's another of JR discussing with Neil DeGrasse Tyson about why, without the critical thinking tools or enough technical or scientific knowledge, people are susceptible to believe outrageous things are fact and/or refuse to "believe" facts when confronted with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhcxffIENBU

I think children raised within the Mormon faith are traumatized for life.

Thanks, spwdone for encouragement & all others who shared. I'm so impatient! I want to be DONE with tscc's BS; it sems to require constant awarenwess & vigilance! It does help to not be 'the only one,' though that sounds suspiciously like 'Misery loves company' lol...

No, totally get it. It's nice not to be alone in our TSCC induced craziness! And, uh, yeah, misery does love company. : )

I wish I could give you an "end date," unfortunately I'm not sure there is one. New crap pops up in my brain & behaviour periodically I didn't know was there all the time, usually when I think I'm finally, "over it." So annoying. It's a constant process. Lots of company and commiserations helps!