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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 12:44AM

RobertB: "If Mormonism isn't true - then Terminatorism must be."

Why must your logic be as cold and twisted as metal assassins'?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2013 12:46AM by Raptor Jesus.

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Posted by: robertb ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 12:46AM


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Posted by: sparkyguru ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 12:55AM

sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Authur C Clarke I think and I probably hacked it up pretty badly

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Posted by: sparkyguru ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 01:35AM

I stumbled onto this while debating on another heated thread.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/18/earths-supercomputing-power-surpasses-human-brain-three-times-over/

kinda interesting and relavent :)

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 12:57AM

I hate to say it, but computers were at the point in my life at their very inception.

I try to look at it like I do a car. I don't really care how it works, I just care that it does. It's up to the genius's and brainiacs to figure out how to make them run and keep running.

I have a couple of these kinds of people in my life. I can't wrap my mind around the things they know. But, it fascinates me to listen to them. One of them is my son. I don't know where his genius came from, but he didn't inherit it from me. The other is my future son in law. He's an aerospace engineer. I often wonder if he thinks the rest of us are just hopelessly dense, and takes pity on us. These are some of the kindest, most compassionate people I know.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 03:42AM

I expect the lights to come on when I hit the switch. If they don't, I can handle changing the light bulb, but if the problem goes deeper than that, I'm in trouble.

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 01:20PM

"If i leave you alone in the woods with an axe, how long till you can make a phone call?"

- Joe Rogan

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Posted by: Richard Foxe ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 07:58AM

Their rule of thumb is not to adopt any technology if they don't know what its ramifications will be (analysis of Prof. Donald Kraybill, in "The Riddles of Human Society," 1999).

Who knew that the invention of the car would massively impact sexual mores? But it gave young people a 'private' place away from their parents' homes... The classic TV series "Connections" (James Burke) explored the unexpected threads of innovations, and the current one "The Link" tries to do the same (on a lesser intellectual scale). The Amish are playing it safe.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 11:51AM

I said no such thing. I made the OBSERVATION that we LIVE in a world where nobody understands the full scope of all the technology. That is a far cry from saying we should not adopt the current or new technology.

My OBSERVATION has nothing to do with anything Amish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2013 11:52AM by MJ.

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Posted by: albertasaurus ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 07:27AM

We have become ultra specialists. Gone are the days of ecerybody knowing how to make everything. Even within a field of study there is too much knowledge for any one person to know. For example, there is nobody on this earth today who could build a car from scratch. I don't mean putting a bunch of parts together, I mean locating and mining/extracting the raw materials, refining the materials and turning them into the necessary parts and then putting all those parts together into a working automobile. It's just too much.

The beauty of science is that you don't have to understand it all, because regardless if you are a master mechanic or a baker that car is going to work just fine, no faith required. Go science!

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 08:21AM

If we made the computer and wrote the software that delivered answers we don't understand, then couldn't we create software to explain the answers? :-)

But what I wonder, too, is whether computers can find answers that we are too dense to even recognize as answers.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 01:03PM

Don't limit it to the situation where WE write the software.
There are already genetic algorithms where the software alters
itself depending on the "environment." Computer-written
software is not far off if not already here. And, contrary to
Nedry in "Jurassic Park" no one person writes a program with two
million lines of code.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 01:12PM

For years one of the main areas of AI was chess. For the first
decade or so computers played very bad chess. Human players
laughed at them. Then they got better and better. A cover of
"Chess Life" had the observation "Now it's getting serious,"
meaning that the computers were getting good.

Current programs running on commercially available PCs can play
at a level well above any human. This has lead to the
computers finding strong moves that defy explanation in terms
of human chess heuristics. The only way humans can justify the
strength of the move is that computers win with it. It just
turns out that what would look like a mediocre move based on
current human understanding of chess turns out, based on
massive calculation of all possible continuations, to be
"objectively" best according to a computer program. At this
point what is a human to do? A human cannot explain why it's
the best move other than a program which can defeat any human
in a set match says so. The calculations which prove the value
of the move are intractable for a human. So in the area of
chess we have already reached that point.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 03:27PM

The only way we'll beat the computers at Chess again is if we can give computers emotions, then we'll get 'em...

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: February 27, 2013 08:13PM

"My computer beat me at chess, but it was no match for me in
kick boxing." -- Emo Phillips

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Posted by: frogdogs ( )
Date: February 27, 2013 09:34PM

ROFL - reminds me of MacReady (Kurt Russell) playing chess with the computer in the 1982 movie "The Thing". Computer says "Checkmate. Checkmate". MacReady dumps his drink into its tower, muttering "cheating bitch" as he gets up to leave.

As for technology becoming responsible for advancements we can't understand, those of us with Luddite leanings will continue to wring our hands. We already think we know a lot (and perhaps we do), but as the article points out there's far too much history littered with after-the-fact recognition of our errors.

What happens when we don't even know we're wrong - perhaps disastrously so, with consequences we also can't grasp - because we have no idea what we're doing (collectively speaking)?

And what happens if I'm unable to get Pat Benatar singing "My Clone Sleeps Alone" out of my head before I try to get some shut-eye?

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Posted by: anonough ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 08:41AM

Those types of articles frustrate me a bit. Doesn't it seem like this particular person is saying in part, "see how complicated this collected mass of information is that only a computer can figure out AND is true?" "Because, you know, its technology and you're finally out done humankind so, just believe what it says."

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 01:48PM

Other things I use all the time, but do not understand how they work:

• Microwave -- I mean, I get that the microwave speeds up water molecules, which heats up food. I just don't understand how it does that.

• My television -- Something about tubes and wires and circuitry, I dunno. I turn it on and pay no mind to how it works.

• My laptop and my smartphone -- Frankly, I wasn't too clear on the inner workings of an old-fashioned landline phone, nevermind wireless, nevermind cellphones.

• My car -- Back in the days of analog cars, I could mostly tell you how a car worked. But now, everything is run in your car by a computer chip. I don't know how any of it works.

* My refrigerator -- It plugs in and requires power. There's some "coils" in there. No clue how it works.

• My HVAC system -- I flip a switch, heat or A/C blasts through the vents. That is all I need to know.

There's lots and lots more.

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Posted by: Naomi ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 02:45PM

The part I don't understand is how the first cars were able to get the ignition timing right. Because it seems to me that unless you had combustion at the right time in the cycle more than 50% of the time, you wouldn't get any power out of the engine - ignition at the exact opposite time would make the engine run backwards. But that's probably my inaccurate understanding of how I think engines work.

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: February 27, 2013 09:48AM

The first cars had a manual crank ignition. I don't think they always managed to start the car on the first try. I think car engines were closer to lawnmower engines back then.

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Posted by: dogblogger ( )
Date: February 26, 2013 02:19PM

This is the premise of the Singularity, coupled with tech advancing at high rates of speed as well.

Some on the religious right have latched on to this concept and coupled it into the techno-rapture.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 27, 2013 12:14PM

But when are we going to have sex bots?

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Posted by: Happy_Heretic ( )
Date: February 27, 2013 12:48PM

if we can't understand it, how would we know a discovery has even been made?. self refuting question.

HH =)

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