We always ask if Mormons are Christian, but what about most Christian churches? Sure they teach that you are saved through Jesus atonement, but Mormons teach that too. How much of modern mainstream Christianity is compatible with the teaches of Jesus Christ, and what common Christian beliefs and customs are, well, unchristian?

forbiddencokedrinker Wrote:
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> We always ask if Mormons are Christian, but what
> about most Christian churches? Sure they teach
> that you are saved through Jesus atonement, but
> Mormons teach that too. How much of modern
> mainstream Christianity is compatible with the
> teaches of Jesus Christ, and what common Christian
> beliefs and customs are, well, unchristian?

Unfortunately we do not know much about the teachings
of Jesus -- or, whether he even preached that he was
the expected Messiah.

We can probably compare the teachings of late 2nd
century and early 3rd century Christianity with those
of modern Churches. A few sects and denominations are
more like their ancient predecessors than are others --
but, as a whole, I'd say that they've evolved away
from what was current around 275 C.E. -- And that's
not to say that the doctrines and practices of that
early date were entirely agreed upon and homogeneous.

UD

Did he practice what he preached?

Or did he get caught with a bunch of crystal meth and gay prostitues like so many Christian preachers?

Jesus was Jewish. I suspect he would be shocked to find himself elevated to godhood.

bona dea Wrote:
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> Jesus was Jewish. I suspect he would be shocked to
> find himself elevated to godhood.

I kinda think that he toyed around with the whole messiah
shtick -- mimicked a few elements of that role -- the
mounted entry into Jerusalem at Passover, etc.

But to tell a Jew 2,000 years ago that a man -- even the
expected messiah, or Elisha, or Melchizedek -- could be
God!! You'd probably give the poor guy a heart attack!

UD

Eww...

Raptor Jesus Wrote:
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> n/t

You seem to really hate the guy.

UD

Kind of funny to equate jokes about a 2000 year old corpse with "hatred."

How else am I feeling?

Don't get me started on how I feel about that slut, Helen of Troy.

I know. Bitches from antiquity are the worst.

So, glad I'm no longer in that particular dating pool.

That would have been the height of blasphemy. I also suspect that if he said he was the son of God,he meant it in the sense that we are all children of God.

But, being the Son, he would act as in the scriptures.

Mormon atonement is not the same. The mormon doctrine is far different and absurd. First, it is imperfect, not covering everything. The mormon doctrine is forgiveness through the atonement "AFTER ALL WE CAN DO". Since no-one ever does ALL they CAN do, it leaves a big gap - meaning no believing mormon can get to the CK! What good is the atonement if it leaves the gap? After all, the only matter, without the atonement, is a gap because man is imperfect.

There's no difference between mormon salavation and christian salvation.

Mormons say "after all we can do."

Christians say "after we choose to believe it."

Either way, action is required on the part of the person being saved.

In both mormonism and christianity, jesus' sacrifice is not enough in and of itself. Nobody gets to be saved by jesus' atonement in mainstream christianity UNLESS they choose to believe it happened.

No version of christianity offers a free ride..

Two points: 1) Most mainstream christianity today emphasizes adherence to religion and equates loyalty to the church the same as loyalty to God. Jesus spoke against this by condemning the most faithful adherents to the most perfect religion of that time: the Pharisees. 2) Jesus was executed for the crime of blasphemy by claiming to be God, not just Messiah. They would not have executed Him for just claiming to be Messiah or toying around with the idea. Those who claimed to be Messiah were a dime a dozen back then. Without claiming to be God, the authorities would not have had a reason to execute Him.

justsayin Wrote:
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> Two points: 1) Most mainstream christianity today
> emphasizes adherence to religion and equates
> loyalty to the church the same as loyalty to God.
> Jesus spoke against this by condemning the most
> faithful adherents to the most perfect religion of
> that time: the Pharisees. 2) Jesus was executed
> for the crime of blasphemy by claiming to be God,
> not just Messiah. They would not have executed Him
> for just claiming to be Messiah or toying around
> with the idea. Those who claimed to be Messiah
> were a dime a dozen back then. Without claiming to
> be God, the authorities would not have had a
> reason to execute Him.

I've heard those sorts of ideas expressed before, but
they don't make much sense to me. We can get some idea
what the Roman authorities thought of Jewish political
messiahs by how they acted during the second Jewish
revolt. Bar Kochba evidently never claimed to be God,
but his effects upon the local population must have
been exactly the thing the Romans most objected to.

If Jesus had even one sword-carrying Zealot among his
followers -- just one knife wielding assassin -- that
would have been sufficient justification to execute
the whole lot of them.

My guess is that Jesus fit in rather well with the
Pharisees as a whole, and would only have had trouble
with a few of them, as a rival and not as a blasphemer.
It would have been the Temple Establishment that would
have then supported the Romans in suppressing anything
that looked like a political revolt. I'm not saying
that Jesus was necessarily a political revolutionary
himself, but he may have tolerated Zealots among his
adherents to a degree unacceptable to Imperial Rome.

UD

Mainstream denominations are on the decline.

The new wave churches are "independent, non-denominational" which means they can do whatever the he!! they want. Most are non-traditional, encourage a laid-back atmosphere, sing Christian music, try to appeal to the younger crowd.

Each one is slightly different, it depends a lot on the leadership of that particular church. I think that's a weakness in that so much depends on the leader of that particular flock. If that person leaves, and he is very charismatic, then it leaves a void.

If we use just the words of Jesus as a guide most Christian churches completely miss the mark. They miss it in a couple of ways:

1) They like the "create your own Jesus" better than the actual Jesus from the Bible. Remember, Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality or guns. He was even ambivalent about peace as he talked about doing violence often and even beat some people up. At one point he even refused to heal someone because they weren't of the right people or race.

Jesus was a complicated and contradictory character. It is much easier to worship a "make your own Jesus" model. Many times this Jesus figure changes from a world peace hippie character to an uber socially conservative anti homosexual Republican.

2) They many times even fall short of emulating their custom created Jesus character. There are very few people who hate Mormons as much as Christians who want to let them know that they are going to hell. This is completely anecdotal and comes from my experience as a Mormon, but it didn't matter how progressive I was, how unassuming I was or how little I preached, every Christian I seemed to meet either showed some intense disdain for me, wanted to argue with me or both. Granted, I was in college and passions run high, but it seemed to happen then whether I was in class, walking to general conference or going to one of those incredibly lame Mormon pageants.

They were insane.

As an exmo I don't see it as much anymore. There are still a few I've interacted with who didn't seem like the Jesus they worshiped, but most of them are just fine to hang around. Maybe my perspective has changed or maybe the fact that I am not Mormon makes them treat me better. I'm not sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 12:01PM by snb.

That's a good point, and something that needs to be remembered. Why after leaving a church that treats us like crap, would any of us want to join another church that used to treat us like crap for belonging to the wrong faith? I appreciate all my religious non-Mormon associates who should me the ugly side of their own faith while I was TBM. It kept me from running off into another mistake.

Love what SNB said above. It's true. If scripture is to be believed, Jesus isn't what a lot of people choose to perceive him as.

It's doubtful that many current Christian churches follow the teachings of Jesus as he meant it, if he did exist. "Pagan Christianity" by George Barna and Frank Viola does a pretty good job of stripping down where and when certain traditions came from. It's difficult to say whether those from the past would recognize Christians now as fellow Christians.

The difference between Christianity in general and many other theologies is that it's managed to stay alive for so long because it changes (and the killing of those with opposing religions). Both those outside and within the major umbrella of Christianity note that if Christianity doesn't change it's going to die just like other theologies from the past. It will no longer be relevant.

This is why I am starting a religion based around Conan The Barbarian. If you are going to follow an idealized mythical character, might as well make it one who has enough source material talking about his thought process and values that you can come up with something clear.

I think "First Cimerian Church of Krum" will be a wonderful name for our congregation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 12:17PM by forbiddencokedrinker.

"What is best in life?"