Do you guys ever think it is weird how we all spend so much time talking about what we used to be, and not actually moving on?
Its like we all are obsessed with our ex and still rage about them years after we break up...

It is a recovery board...

Exactly, suzanne. Most of my time is spent parenting or working or working on projects or reading or whatever. But I do check in here once or twice a day, when I'm on break, because there are still things I'm trying to recover from re: Mormonism and because they are still at it with me, due to the fact I can't move or resign because of my husband. In a perfect world, I'd move and get a fresh start, away from Mormons I know, resigned from the church. It's hard to get over something that is still happening to you. But it isn't how I spend most or even much of my waking hours.

Nope, I don't think it's weird at all.

Watch closer.

There are those who are raging and there others who are here empathizing and supporting. There are people doing both.

There are also a number of posts about moving on and talking about progress made.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 12:10AM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

But why the raging? Every exmormon place i goto just turns into big hate fests on mormons.
And despite what everyone seems to think they are NOT evil.

I just want somewhere for advice on certain things not a huge group of people to support me by hating what my family is and i am/was

Why does it always degrad to all the hate

I think nobody hates your family but many hate what Mormonism has done to many families.

I agree with that. I don't hate people that are okay in the church as long as they are respectful of me and my okay ness outside of the church.

What I hate is the way it breaks families apart, degrades women and makes people feel "unworthy" for many things. Those things are very damaging and hateful.

Fair question.

I personally strongly dislike the hatred towards Mormons on the site. I dislike prejudice and stereotyping in any form.

However, that's their choice. It's a free internet board and all I can do is not participate in that part of it.

However, I differentiate Mormons from Mormonism. Even Mormonism is not 100% bad, but it has a whole lot of bad in it. I didn't recognize how bad it was when I first realized it wasn't true. It took time to see that - and I was uncomfortable with how it was portrayed on this board at first, until I got a broader understanding.

Finally, here's the thing you have to realize. Many of the people on these boards have been abused, seriously abused by Mormons. For them it's not just a matter of problems with the religion. When you were raped and your bishop told you that you were guilty and needed to repent; when you were raped and your leaders told you that you were an unwanted licked cupcake; when you were sexually abused by your father and saw him get leadership after leadership position in the church, etc. you have some valid reasons for raging.

When you simply told your family you no longer believed and you were ostracized, told you were going to hell, disowned, kicked out of your house, looked down on, reveled in problems you had, bullied, etc. you have cause for raging.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2013 11:54PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

Because Mormons treat other people in ways they would never tolerate being treated. You can't continually treat people like crap without pissing people off. That's why revolutions happen, that's why civil rights battles rage, that's why people get angry enough to take a stand. You can't kick people around without expecting to get kicked back.

And let's be clear - not all Mormons are horrible people. The ones who are nice to us do NOT get hated. If anything, they get MORE appreciation than anyone else because those Mormons stand out of the crowd for being amazingly fair, good and kind. A little light can make a big difference in a huge darkness and those Mormons are appreciated for the lights they are. But they are the less common members of the church - not the majority. Mormonism tends to take good-intentions and twist them into bad behavior and bad behavior makes the victims angry. It's that simple.

It is not that simple.. To say most people of any group are all evil is just wrong, its not reasonable. Not all muslims are evil, but the people who say "well, most of em are. crazy terrorists" are completely off their rockers. Generalizations like that are wrong, no matter who you apply them to.

Which leads me to realize that generalizing about all the exmormons raging was wrong of me too, but it still seems overly prominant

There are however ways that Mormons are programmed to act towards and treat others who leave the faith. Some Mormons reach beyond that but many do many condescending, hurtful, and arrogant things in line with how they have been taught.

Much of the problem is that the need for the church to keep it's members believing makes them very judgmental of those who do leave - members are taught there is something wrong with them if their testimony waivers. There are even scriptures indicating that apostasy is a more serious sin than murder - and members often act accordingly.

They are often good people acting badly in this context.

----

This quote by Ken Daniels who left Evangelical Christianity illustrates the problem - it's not unique to Mormons - but it is the experience many have had with Mormons:

[quote]
I wish I could say from my experience that this fear is unfounded and that you will encounter only a minor bump in the road. This will not be the case if your relatives or friends take their faith seriously. They will analyze you to figure out what went wrong; they will chalk it up to the wiles of Satan; they will blame it on some negative experience you had with the church; they will tell you they are praying for you; they will say your situation is sad; they will blame you for being the one who moved from the original position; they will assert you were never truly saved to begin with; they will blame it on your misunderstanding of the True Christian Faith; they will seek you out not for who you are as a friend but for the opportunity to set you straight; they will question your integrity—in short, they will look for any explanation that exonerates their faith and places the blame on anything but the deficiencies of the Christian faith itself. You may be thankful you do not live prior to the Enlightenment when heresy was rewarded by torture or death, but you will have to live with the suspicion of those you love most.
[/quote]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 11:33AM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

Your provided quotes and links have been very much appreciated.

No, I said that some are just as nice as any non-Mormon. But many of the active Mormons treat people like crap when those people leave the church. They may not realize they are doing it but that doesn't change the fact that they are behaving badly. Like if I ran over a dog backing out of the driveway - I may not have meant to do it but I still need to get that dog to a vet and take responsibility for it. I do NOT need to tell the dog it shouldn't be offended and let it limp off, shaking my head about what a bad dog it is.

I'm glad you are in an area where most Mormons have not treated you badly but I can't deny what I've seen with my own eyes. Of the active LDS that were my friends in my ward, not ONE asked me why I quit going. I've been snubbed, lied about, they've gone after my kids while shoving me aside, they've talked down to me and in general, I've never seen such a collapse of morals as I've watched from the Mormons in my ward when I left. I could count on the fingers of both hands the ones who have still treated me the same since I left - the rest have been actively nasty, gossipy and rude. I've never in my life seen non-LDS people respond so overwhelmingly badly. And let's get one thing straight. I wasn't excommunicated, I haven't spread any anti-Mormon sentiments in my ward, I've been relentlessly nice to all of them and bit my tongue to not tell them what I really think of them. But they all HATE me because they have made up their minds I'm destroying my family and my kids WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME WHAT THE TRUTH IS. They made up a lie, ruined my reputation with the local Mormons by spreading it and I'm supposed to think most Mormons are nice people? I'm supposed to not hate them back when THEY started it? When they hated me first without even giving me a chance to defend myself? Of COURSE I'm furious. I would have played nicely with them if they'd behaved decently but the VAST majority didn't. Your experience has been different. You are lucky. I'd still advise you to watch your back.

Supporting bigotry IS wrong, and every tithe paying mormon is supporting an actively divisive, hateful organization. Hate is a curse of a skin of darkness, hate is the majority half of their members being second class, hate is all the youth and non-straight suicides.

Oh god I'm so mean to hate what the church does. That makes me just as much of a bigot, what??? Are you kidding me?
Strawman from the morg, hello! Antis are the haters, that's right...

Questioning, you're right. Absolutely right. However, one of the stages of grief is anger. Most of us are somewhere in the 5 stages. Some of us are still in the anger stage. It gives those who are in any of the stages a safe place to vent so that we don't go all medieval on the mormons we do know.

You will note that a lot of the anger is directed towards the leadership. They are the ones that run the church which deceived and wounded us. It is much more cathartic to rage against a person than it is to rage against an inanimate object. Perhaps that will explain it.

Some of the anger is directed towards people in our immediate circle, not only because of them being associated with the mormon church, but because they continue to wound us in the name of the church.

In the end, if you are not in the anger stage, simply gloss over the threads that deal with that, and read the ones that help you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 10:12AM by Good Witch.

Questioning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every exmormon place i goto...

> Why does it always degrad to all the hate

If you are attempting to criticize a group for over generalizing, you might want to avoid words like "every" and "always".

+1

It pisses me off when people minimize my pissed-offedness.

++1

+100

"But why the raging?"


Why the raging??? Read these posts and it should answer your question. I'm not mormon but when CHILDREN are stalked and mentally assualted, as a parent, this pisses me off.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,823772

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,823632


Here's but just 2 examples of ex mormon LOVED ONES being stalked, menatally assaulted and ABUSED by the church and its leaders.




If you don't get that then you have NO empathy whatsoever....

The Oncoming Storm - bc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There are those who are raging and there others
> who are here empathizing and supporting.

Exactly. I feel healed, but these are still the people I can relate to more than anyone else. I no longer fit in at all in the Mormon world, but I don't quite fit in with what I used to perceive as the outside world either.

These people get where I am, so I like to hang out with them. I also like to help people who are at the beginning of the journey now. You can just picture the shock and confusion on their faces as they go through what you did not so long ago.

Ex-mos reached out to me with open arms, so now I'm one of those doing the same.

I think the key statement is that this is a recovery board - most are still making sense of their new found world and feel embarrasment and anger for being duped. time will go on and there will be a new set of recovering exmos going through their anger cycle as many graduate and move on- it's healthy...I think the total recovery comes when you can sign off for the last time....Many here would have done that long ago, but because of family complications take longer to recover.

I was on here every night last summer when I finally came clean to my mom. I am one of the lucky ones that has a husband that left at the same time, but still, the ostrazation by my mom is hard. I was off for a couple months and recent difficult dealings with mom happened and lo and behold, here I am again.

It is a support board for people who are hurting and upset. Whether or not people even really mean all the angry things they say is not the point. People come here to vent and to be comforted and cheered by others in the same situation.

I'm just here to pay it forward. There were some amazing posters who supported me through my exit process (including the rage part).

Again. This is a RECOVERY board. It's OK be angry.

;o)

I feel the same way about the car forum I frequent. All they talk about is cars. Can't they think of anything else to talk about on a car forum besides cars? Sheesh..

</sarcasm>

The people I should have been able to go through life trusting and depending on for love, and some sense of security, have been abusing me for 59 years.

They've done this is the name of Mormonism. I have never been the level of Mormon they think I should be. I've been used, abused, and deprived all of my life for not fitting the mold.

I finally cut off all contact 9 years ago. They still find ways to crap on me.

Can anyone come up with a reason why I shouldn't be a bit upset by this? I'm guessing i'll be dealing with this on some level for the rest of my life. I wish it was different, but it isn't.

I've done my best to separate my kids from all of this crap. My hope is that i've broken the chain. My grandchildren (yet unborn) will not know the abuse that mormonism strangles your life with. They will never be forced to go to church when they stay with me. Instead, we'll be out fishing, or combing the beach. Maybe just reading some good books, playing video games, and getting to know each other.

Mormonism introduced a ton of misery into my life. The mormons in my family would love to maintain that tradition. I've put a halt to that. Some of them are as mad as a wet hen. How dare I stop being their scapegoat.

I'm done with mormonism. Anyone that tries to push it on me won't be met with hugs and smiles. I have a history. It's not going away. It's used up the best part of my life. What I have left isn't going to be used to make it easy for Mormonism to continue to ruin lives. I can't ignore my past. I don't want another single person to have to live the way I did growing up. I want the parents of the future to take a look at this religion before they have kids. Don't pass on the insanity that mormonism brings into so many families. Life is hard enough without a bunch of crazy old men from another era telling you how to run your life, and how to raise your kids.

Those old men that are running the show are beyond clueless. They wouldn't last a day if they had to be a functioning 25 yo in this world. The technology alone would throw them down. They're trying to force every member to live back in the 50's. Back when information was highly controlled. Those days are OVER.

Some of us are trying to create something here. It's part humor, part heartbreak, for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 02:04AM by donbagley.

Sometimes I remind myself of what I used to do for the cult, because it is hard to believe that I actually did those things! Things that were against my own integrity, things I absolutely did not want or need to do. I actually believed those lies! I am sooo not that person anymore.

I also use my Mormon past as a boundary that I will never ever cross again--or even come close to touching. It is like a warning, so I won't backslide.

I have a suh-weeeet life in Salt Lake City, and I refuse to give it up to the Mormons. They are not going to take away my lovely house and yard by making me feel uncomfortable or unwelcome. I own this property and this life and my family and friends and my business and my clients and my money, and my identity and pride, and I'll be darned if I'll give any of it over to that nasty cult.

Especially, I won't let the Mormons take my children and grandchildren--as they always are trying to do, by stalking them and trying to manipulate them into the Mormon activities and relationships. This is our home! The MOrmons are the ones who are trespassing and invading. Sometimes we have to be very assertive.

Mormons have a little catch phrase that they use frequently. "Hate the sin but love the sinner"

Well if that works I can also "hate the belief but love the believer."

So why are you here? Go to church where you belong.

If you want to learn, you need to read and listen.

If not, you need to move on and stop wasting your time asking a question you don't care to research or ponder.

When you go your whole life, decades for some people, with the same belief system, and then you radically change that belief system, including all the social infrastructure that came with it ... it is not going to be a smooth transition.

It has an effect. A very big one.

People are here to work through that process, and everyone is in a different stage of that process. No one can put a timetable on recovery ... no therapist is going to tell you that you need to be "cured" after 5 sessions, or whatever.

Having said that, some people take it too far. Some people react to the suffering they have been through by delving deeply into rage and bitterness. You have to expect some of them will be posting on this site. I think most of us are mature enough to see those posts for what they are, and move on, still understanding that the purpose and value of the site remains unchanged.

Oh I just looove hearing from those who apparently didn't sufferas much that I am delving too deeply into my rage. Way to invalidate. Might as well say I was offended.
I'm glad TSCC doesn't harm everyone the way it harmed me. But perhaps if it did there would be more understanding.

I'm not trying to invalidate your suffering at all. I don't blame you at all for being bitter ... hell I'm bitter. I'm just saying that bitterness is in the end not psychologically healthy, and I see it as something that I want to eventually get over. Otherwise I feel like I'm still letting TSCC hurt me.

What an insensitive line of questioning....I suspect you need some more deprogramming yourself to expel that LDS smugness virus you get through years of dedicated righteous service...:)

It's wrong. You should always forgive, or you have a problem, and you have committed the bigger sin.

****

Okay, I really don't believe what I just wrote. But I used to. And there are obviously a lot of religious people who operate under the assumption that anger is wrong. In the case of a controlling religion (like Mormonism), who benefits when the members are taught to be meek, submissive, and suppress natural reactions to mistreatment? Isn't it typical when the controller in a relationship gets to rewrite expectations for behavior in a way that benefits THEM, and that they don't want to be held accountable for their actions?

Is it actually BAD to be angry or upset when mistreated? Or is it a natural reaction?

Of COURSE the church would rather have people leave quietly, rather than rage about the things they put up with in the church. So they do a preemptive strike. In church, they discredit people who leave the church. They accuse them generally of being bitter, angry, and wanting to sin. And true believers sit there and listen to this stuff their whole life, and think "I never want to be like THEM." And then when people leave, they gossip about them, they speculate about what sin they committed, they pester them in their homes. Sometimes they shower them or their CHILDREN with notes, calls, gifts. They shun them. Sometimes they even threaten them with damnation and predict bad things happening in their lives. But they usually don't listen to them or respect them as individuals who have a legitimate reason to believe differently.

And many people, after they leave, STILL operate under the assumption that it's bad to criticize the church or feel negatively toward it, because they desperately don't want to fit the profile of someone who is "angry and bitter".

When people come here to the board, many have lost their friends, their standing in the community, and sometimes lost relationships with their parents, siblings, or even spouses and children. All because they discovered the truth and the Mormons assumed that the "apostate" is now a horrible person. Is that NOT upsetting? Would a normal person be okay with that? And who are you to decide when they should let it go?

I see your focus on their negativity. Why doesn't it bother you MORE that they were mistreated? Where is your outrage about that?

I was trained to be submissive and pleasant, no matter what. I put up with some things that were ridiculous. I was a doormat. Sometimes anger was the only thing that could get me to say NO, when I was tired of being taken advantage of.

Learning to experience anger, instead of suppress it, opened up a wider range of emotions--including positive ones-- for me. It also gave me the resolve to take back control of my own life and set boundaries with people.

That anger stage didn't last all that long for me. But when I hear about people being mistreated, I DO get angry. Sometimes outrage is a normal response.

Your discomfort in hearing about unpleasantness and anger is nothing compared to going through it.

But I can understand why you might not want to hear about it anymore. It's just like people who might not want to watch the news anymore. Hearing about disasters and crime doesn't lift you, and it doesn't help him.

But here's the difference: Here you can give support and validation to people who are suffering, even if you are not. But if, instead, you tell people to stop complaining, you are doing the opposite. It's like telling someone to "smile" so they'll feel better.

Totally relate to your posting. Thanks.

I just barely had my name removed. I come here to find people who've done the same to help me realize I'm not the only person who's in that boat right now. I'll eventually move on. I also have a desire to help others who are having that difficult time of coming out and trying to decide whether to send a resignation letter. To me, this is a lot like my 12-step program. It's a very invaluable resource to me.

No.

But I find the almost pathological need of some people to insist they know better for such a personal thing as recovery to be rather frighteningly dissociated from reality.

What is so broken in a person to insist to total strangers how they should heal, stop discussing, or otherwise discourage further growth and learning? To make any assumption about someone else's life like that?

I know what you mean. I have questioned that when visiting this baord. I don't hate the members or the church since it's composed of all these people thinking they are doing the right things.. I hate the culture of it. The mind set and thinking of members is so frustrating. I hate how you can't be open about your feelings or questioning without risking losing friends. Like others have mentioned here, many people find it hard to treat someone the same if they have gone inactive or left the church. Basically it's hard to understand how members of the church take this stuff so personally. Like if I don't believe, why would that bother people at church? I don't stereotype all mormons but I think sometimes it sounds like it because it's almost the majority that act like this. I have been fortunate to know some really awesome good hearted people though so I try to remember that. There are some really good teachings and things I like about the church, but this can be found if you are a true Christian not just a mormon. The problem with mormons and sometimes hard core Christians is they don't practice what they preach!

Some of our biggest contributors went through that stage and posted pretty much what you have.

They couldn't understand all the "anger, hate, and bitterness."

Usually someone posts something like, "What's the point of being so angry?"

And then they were ostracized by some publicly shamed by others.

The anger stage came crashing down.