The parents pass along the cult poison to their children, some even after learning it is poison
An effort to effectively remove their tax exempt status and ability for members to write-off against their tax obligations payments to the Mormon cult as if they were charitable donations has not been put in place. The Mormon church will fail as a large enterprise and will revert back into that box shaped like Utah without tax exempt status for their cult as a charity.
A third thought is that the presence of full disclosure in Spanish and Portuguese will help advance honest discussion in other nations that do not speak English.
Mormonism, is getting smaller, they just don't admit the honest numbers. They are a deceiving enterprise with no honest discussion about their objectives or shortcomings and deceptions.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2013 02:20PM by gentlestrength.
The people who joined in the 1830-1840's probably wouldn't join the mormon church as it is known today. Likewise, those who join today probably wouldn't join back then.
There was the 1830-1840's church pentacostal type of whizbang
then there was the 1847-1899ish church with its polygamy
then there was the early 20th century church which was very different from the 1950's to 1970's church which was a lot of fun with road shows, church bazars and the like.
then the 80's to 2000 church which killed all the fun and instituted correlation to an entirely new level.
and here we are with the early 21st century real estate investment group that can't afford to pay for janitors, but can afford to pay for a multi-billion dollar shopping center.
I doubt it will die out. It's base is solid,(financially also), it's core beliefs still appeal to members, particularly the generational Mormons. I've often shared my experience with the power of the spiritual witness that just can't be broken much of the time.
I've also shared my analysis, observation, and experience with how Mormonism manifests as a patriarchal, generational, social, familial, cultural tribe. It has it's own language, music, special clothing, health code,and on and on. And that is why it won't die out.
Besides, look around the world. Human beings are attracted to unique beliefs that give their lives meaning and comfort. It's been going on throughout the history of humanity.
LDS, Inc is an apostate church by definition of the founders.
It has survived because it meets the needs of Western society in which the community/town tribe is disappearing. People feel a need for a tribe and saying your from San Jose or San Antonio means nothing.
We are hardwired to associate with a group of around 150-200 people as "our band." We can remember and recognize that many and they will also know us as members. This is the size of a ward.
The Mormon church is a very well-organized geographic sector of the community. It serves as a "neighborhood" in a sense that really doesn't exist in modern society given the transience and diversity of modern urban cities which blend into suburbs which blend into each other. We all eat at the same chain restaurants and buy our clothing at identical big box stores.
People who travel and stay at Holiday Inn might not even know what state they're in. They look outside and there's a Denny's and a Shell gas station. They could be anywhere in America.
Mormonism is meeting a need for structure and tribe. A desire for certainty in a changing landscape. It doesn't even matter what they believe as long as they are meeting those needs.
This is why you see them backing out of doctrinal arguments. Who cares? It's not what they are about. They have a product and they know exactly what it is - a clean place with wholesome kids for your kids to hang with. Help raising your family while you and your wife work. Other adults to supervise those teenagers and operate as alloparents motivating your children to succeed.
The modern needs being met are very different than the original needs that made Joseph Smith's religion attractive in his time. That was then, this is now. It's a whole new godscape.
And it likes malls.
Anagrammy
PS. Somebody actually called Mormonism "Kentucky Fried Religion" and I think correlation was the year it became exactly that. No matter where you go in the world, you get the red box with the picture of the prophet--er, Colonel.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2013 11:31PM by anagrammy.
Anagrammy, as usual you're insightful and make a lot of sense. I've thought of this for a long time.. The tribal thing and the need for a social group that cojcolds offers, as do other churches. Daniel Dennett agrees. Even though he's one of the "four horsemen of the new atheism," he does not want to destroy religions. He wants to remove the poison from them. He wants them to transform into something that serves those social needs that we don't seem to have any secular substitute for. Cojcolds has been transforming into that to a limited extent. For instance I often hear "We don't care what you believe, just don't teach it to others," which is half good.. but still indicates that they are dogmatic and protective of the core myths. The trouble is, we will have to wait a long time.. too long for me, to see them transform into a benign group. The male dominated patriarchy, authoritarianism and infallibility things are not likely to fade very quickly. If I see a need for this type of social interaction, I'll go to the UU's.
Thanks for the kind words. I sure don't expect a resolution during my lifetime because these movements are never "done."
Look at the Catholic church. Won't acknowledge gays EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THEM but will make a special announcement that extraterrestrials are covered by Christ's atonement.
What is crazier than that? Women, um, no. Grays, of course!
Moving forward in Catholicism means you don't kill the present pope, you let him retire.
Mormonism isn't there yet but has moved rather nimbly in other areas. Catholicism updated to modern languages IN THE SIXTIES for heaven's sake. Mormonism stopped banning black people IN THE SEVENTIES.
When you look at the difference in age of the two religions, you realize that Mormonism is really blazing fast. It's morphing so fast it has a nosebleed and is staggering from the effort.
Another novel thing that Mormonism offers is a Good Ole Boys club for those who don't want to wear a fez or be a Mason. Boys always need a gang and they never grow out of that.
The civilizing effect of women will have to be demonstrated first in the society before it is accepted by the religion. This is usually the pattern--society changes, the religions adapt. Those that cannot adapt fast enough are absorbed into other faiths or just disappear.
Anagrammy
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2013 01:01AM by anagrammy.
Lots of churches don't agree with gay marriage. That is not unique to the LDS Church.
If something doesn't fit their firm doctrines: (See: Gospel Principles, and The Plan of Salvation, and the Declaration on the Family) it is not going to be accepted.
They might accept civil unions, but never gay marriage in the temple or a chapel. Period.
The church now performs multiracial temple marriages. A hundred years ago the idea of such a thing would have been met with the same outrage and skepticism as the idea of same sex temple marriage today.
Because if you reject science enough to believe in a 6,000 year old earth, or a great world flood, it isn't that much harder to discount all the proof that the BoM is a fraud.
As kolobian says, Joseph Smith's church failed many years ago. Various people invented a new church, the cojcolds, loosely based on some of Smith's fiction.
The FLDS is closer to what Smith actually invented, and it, of course, is a disaster.
Mormonism can only survive if people continue to reinvent it.
Maybe the question should be "why are any religions still around?"
Mormonism is way more stupid than any other religion, and obviously so. It doesn't say much abouth the mentality of their members that it still exists.