squeebee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ballard just mentioned the *Christian* virtues of > love, humility, and patience. > > All three existed before Christ came, and are > often better exemplified in non-Christians!
If Jesus was trying to promote ideas like being kind to strangers, those sorts of provisions already existed in the Jewish community centuries before Christianity.
While their notion of a "covenant community" was far from perfect, it did include the idea of social justice and of extending the benefits of that community cooperation to non-Jews who happened to be guests or close neighbors.
I have no doubt that there were other peoples, 2000 years ago and before, who promoted honesty, justice, decency, compassion, etc.
When I hear the word "patience" I automatically envision Stoic philosophers or Buddhist monks.
When I hear the word "justice" I automatically think of Cynic philosophers and the Roman republic.
Christians came along late in the game, and have tarnished their reputation with far too many crusades and inquisitions to claim any special honor in loving neighbors as themselves.
But Uncle Dale one must not blame current Christians for the Crusades. What in the world could we do about that? All groups must be looked at in light of today.....what actions do they take today to live up to the words of Jesus? How do they show love to others today? I will take a true Christian over one certain religious group for sure who feels it is there duty to convert all to their religion (oh, a couple grps claim that and they come to mind pretty quickly). My Christian faith does not speak of other faiths so arrogantly(only ours is the best,etc.) but it does encourage all to learn about Jesus.
honestone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But Uncle Dale one must not blame current > Christians for the Crusades. What in the world > could we do about that? All groups must be looked > at in light of today.....what actions do they take > today to live up to the words of Jesus? How do > they show love to others today? I will take a true > Christian over one certain religious group for > sure who feels it is there duty to convert all to > their religion (oh, a couple grps claim that and > they come to mind pretty quickly). My Christian > faith does not speak of other faiths so > arrogantly(only ours is the best,etc.) but it does > encourage all to learn about Jesus.
A noble sentiment, no doubt.
But the Dominican monks who manned the torture racks were no less pious or well-meaning than good Christians are today. They valued the worth of the repentant soul far, far above the temporary body of clay. Their aim was to help the poor, misguided heretics find a proven route to eternal life -- and the Pope and cardinals and RCC theologians agreed.
We might hope that the Reformation resulted in a reduction of crusades and inquisitions -- but it did not. The Lutherans and Reformed troops who wished to return to the simplicity and holiness of the original church were just as brutal as the RCC troops in their various continuing conflicts. It was the Counter-Reformation which gave rise to some of the worst abuses of human dignity.
We might also hope that those days are behind us -- that there will never be another Mountain Meadows Massacre, or Jonestown or Waco -- that the mainstream Christian denominations have evolved to become more tolerant, less dangerous organizations than the fringe sects which now capture the media headlines, with their violence and public expressions of hate.
I hope so. I genuinely hope so. But I am not convinced that the peacefulness and high-mindedness of the mainstream denominations (or the benign non-denominational congregations) would survive a harsh downturn in the economy or in the general civil security presently in place throughout much of the world.
Perhaps the pacifist Buddhist would turn the other cheek and accept the barbarian's bullet in such a distopian scenario -- but the stars-and-bars-waving Southern Baptist carrying his machine gun, and Ted Nugent lyrics I have less optimism for.
Help me see the light, if I am being too pessimistic here.
They can try.....it won'thappen. The Prostestants and Catholics know what they are up to and will call them on their "unChristian" beliefs. There are too many differences to let it go.
In the late 80s early 90s in Assisi there was a series of conferences who's sole purpose was to unite different faiths. (I think it still happens on a regular basis under the name of the Assisi Peace Conference) The idea was, putting dogma aside, most faiths had common goals. It was JPII's brain child and has at different times been popular and unpopular. One of the things that was a constant source of agitation was the interpretation of the rank and file that JPII was trying to move away from salvation being available only from the Chruch. After all Catholic does mean universal.
Anyway I agree with you that other denominations will call the Mormons on their obfuscation, I just don't think the other denominations have much of a high-ground in this fight.
honestone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > They can try.....it won'thappen. The Prostestants > and Catholics know what they are up to and will > call them on their "unChristian" beliefs. There > are too many differences to let it go.
If the reward was their high-level participation in an American theocracy, I have the strong suspicion that the top LDS leaders would be willing to abandon a good deal of Mormon doctrine, in order to secure for themselves and their associates a favored position in Church-State administration.
In 1890 many people were surprised to see the Mormon Prophet lay aside what had been a key doctrine of the Church -- the New and Everlasting Covenant of Patriarchal Marriage. But that happened.
If the LDS First Presidency could assure for themselves a very high level position of authority in an American throcracy, I fully believe that they would profess the Apostles Creed, stop baptisms for the dead, bury the BoM and kiss the Pope's ring.
WOW, UD...interesting. Again, it is all about power...just give me the power. That seems a long way off to accept all those Christian beliefs and give up all the crazy Mormon stuff.
TSCC promotes "Christian Values" like North Korea promotes personal freedom. Some examples; These great whited sepulchers called temples, untold billions of dollars spent to build and maintain.. Where millions of people waste millions of hours pretending to help the dead, who need no help from us.
Meanwhile, the starving babes die by the millions of starvation and disease for want of food, clinics and orphanages.. all of which could be provided in abundance by the wasted financial and human resources "worshiping" and performing senseless rituals.
This religion in no way honors the concepts of Jesus. It's a blot on the face of humanity.