So some of you know I'm very new here - about 2 weeks - but have been inactive for the last 10 years or so. My leaving the TSCC had nothing to do with the evidence that many of you were faced with. It had deep-rooted issues within my family, which I won't go into here, but suffice it to say, I'm a little late to the MormonThink party, as well as other sources you have all listed.

Finding these things out now is leaving me in a bit of a whirlwind, but my mind is more than open to it seeing as I never was much of a believer before. However, one thing I didn't expect was the tears. The tears for my mom and little sisters, friends, other family, all the little kids. Particularly after reading and watching things regarding the Temple. Now every time I think of my sisters going through for the first time and how scared they probably were, I am so angry! I never went through myself, so I never thought about it until now, but its almost criminal the way the church sets you up for that $(*&%.

Anyway, my question for you guys is this: How many of you were really roped in to the faith -- as in, the kind of TBM that could hear "facts" that discredit the church, but would make every excuse for the church because you KNEW (NOT believed) but "KNEW" it was true? Were any of you the kind who got up every F&T meeting and bore your soul with serious conviction? The kind who felt the spirit and not just said you did to placate everyone around you?

I ask because now that I know what I know, all I can do is hope that maybe my family will find a way out, too, but they are the TBM I described above. We're a "Pioneer" family (Martin Handcart Company) and its a big part of my mom's faith. I don't know if its as huge for my sisters, but all of them are equally engrossed in the "gospel". 2 have served missions and one of them cried her eyes out when she got home because we were all such heathens compared to her mission companions and MP. She still wants to be there and has moved back and forth between the US and Austria for the last 6 years trying to relive it. The latter came home early and is the only one I can see possibly ever "escaping". She's the youngest and lived with me on and off for about 5 years in my NON-LDS home. I love her like she's my kid. My heart breaks for the lies she is told because she's so impressionable and her self-esteem is entirely tied to the church and "worthiness".

Please tell me there is hope for them! Please, share your story (even if its been shared, I would love to hear it!). One of them has 2 little kids (14 mos and 1 month) and I want so badly to believe that they will grow up in a different world than I did, but its not looking good :(

(As I type this, REM's "Losing My Religion" came on spotify. Coincidence? ;) )

OH -- and wanted to ask, I know its personal, but if you're okay with sharing: How many of you who left the church and lost your marriages because of it?

I know at least a handful of you did, but I also know so many of you have been able to either get your spouse to leave with you, or have maintained your relationship in-spite of it.

I was born to less active members. I've always had a bit of skepticism and mainly was active because of my wife. I've now parted ways with the church, although not formally resigned. We are doing ok with her active and me totally not, but it is a strain on the marriage. I approached it gradually to reduce the shock factor. That's saved the marriage, I think.

I think gradually sounds like it is the only way. I mean, we're talking about deconstructing an entire (albeit FALSE) belief system, so I understand it has to be thoughtful and careful. I'm so happy for you that your relationship is weathering the storm!

for a long, long time. I had siblings who went inactive in their teens. My dad was always semi-active.

Of my family, there is only ONE grandchild who is active mormon--my daughter. My sister who is still active, she has 3 children and 8 grandchildren--none of whom are active, let alone baptized.

My ex is gay. You'd think our daughter would run as fast as she can from mormonism, and she did for a while. She went back at age 20 and is over the top mormon.

Some leave. Some don't. I don't think there is any way to really tell who will leave.

Wow, I can't really imagine what that would feel like - my son is only 1 right now, so I feel pretty confident that he won't be running to Mormonism anytime soon, but its an eye-opener to all of the families that were potentially harmed by the missionaries who convert the kids when the parents know better.

I hope you and your daughter still have a good relationship and that someday she will come back around...

My mom's side of the family comes from Pioneer stock (William Clayton through one of his wives) so it's tough, though I have about 6 cousins that have left (out of about 30).

When I was a teenager I bought it hook, line, and sinker. Though I had various red flags pop up, I lived off of the belief that my parents and extended family knew what they were doing and trusted them.

You might say that I had been inoculated against some of the things that "anti-mormons" would say, like the 4000 changes in the BoM. I had been told that all of the changes were grammatical/spelling/etc. by my leaders, so it didn't bother me.

Every once in a while I'd come across something that would reinforce my mormon beliefs, and it would be comforting that I had chosen right all along, but slowly more and more things showing the other side of the arguement started popping up and I had trouble dealing with it at first.

One of the things that helped my cognitive dissonance was becoming a Physics major at Weber State. I started thinking more logically and scientifically. But one of the biggies was that "priesthood blessings" never seemed to work miraculously and worked no better than modern medicine or placebo (which is really what they are).

I'm hoping my sister who is a Ph.D. student right now will come around to your logical thinking, as well. I find that education can be the nail in the coffin for the church's stranglehold. I thought it would be for her, but she "can't see the forest for the trees."

There is definitely hope! I was totally TBM, KNEW the church was true, bore my testimony all the time, did all the right mormon things. The seminary teacher was my cousin. My family is TBM on both sides like 6 generations back.

I dated a nevermo (I was going to convert him you see). When things got serious we knew we didn't want to go into a marriage with different beliefs and while my boyfriend (now husband) agreed to look into mormonism he asked that I look into his beliefs as well. He was geniunely interested in mormonism and asked really sincere question which I had no answers to even though he always seemed to have answers to mine. So I decided to study up on my faith. Like a good little mormon girl I didn't look at the internet but opened the church library on my parents computer. I opened the index and what is the first thing that catches my eye??? Adam-God theory. That was the beginning of the end for me. I would never have left the church any other way. If my husband had shown me the Adam-God theory I would have brushed it off as anti-mormon but he let me figure out things on my own. I am forever grateful for that.

I worry about my family as well. My selfesteem was very much tied to worthiness and it put me in a very bad place. I am still healing from it and it's been nearly 8 years since I left. I am so glad I never made it through the temple. I wonder what it was like for my siblings.

Don't give up hope, you never know what could tip the first domino.

My husband is nevermo but I do know two couples where one spouse left the church but they are still together. I'm sure it's difficult at times but it does happen!

Holy crap - just read about the Adam-God doctrine for the first time. That's a doozy!

Thanks for sharing. So you're saying that had someone else shown you and you hadn't found it for yourself, you would have been really resistant to it? I think that's my family, as well. I guess there's always "hope", I just feel helpless. I'm gathering that that is a common feeling among this group :(

I had a lot of rationale for the doctrines that other people couldn't accept (polygamy, Adam-God, the temple, etc.), and would only bear my testimony when "The Spirit" moved me, but I definitely had one. The first few items that I couldn't dismiss actually had to sit on the shelf (where I had put blacks and the priesthood until I came up with a rationale) for a few years. Then, after going inactive and becoming less and less afraid of the Internet changing how I viewed the world, those shelf items just exploded, and Occam's Razor was applied easily.

If I were straight and had a family invested in the church (wife and kids), it may not have actually happened. Some people have too much emotionally invested in the church to dare peek outside. I had a lot more incentive to junk it. However, I also had always felt that the truth doesn't need me; I need the truth. That's something more important to hold on to.

So, don't be afraid to change your mind about any belief if the truth creates cognitive dissonance. As far as your family is concerned, you're just going to have to let it go. It seems to me that each individual posting here has left in his or her own way.

Unfortunately, my family remains TBM (some are jackMo), but it doesn't matter what I say. I have become the bad apostate relative (whispered about at family reunions where I am the misfit), and I too cry for them and feel deeply sorry for them.
No matter what, please stick to your guns.

I'm in the same boat with my family -- and my husband's. Surrounded by TBMs and "scholars" -- even Boyd K. Packer relatives in the family (mom's sister married his nephew -- and of course, they never shut up about it).

There's absolutely NO way I would ever go back to that place - especially now that I have a kid of my own and any thinking of "well, I can just go for the social aspect and it won't affect me" is out the window. I'm not letting that mind numbing garbage near my kid!

Its just that I feel like email blasting everyone saying "Did you know this?? Get out while you still can!" Problem is, that would never do anyone any good. Especially this "black sheep."

re: BKP: Hi cuz! (by marriage).

In *what* other world does anyone even KNOW or CARE who Boyd K. Packer is?!

;o)

Yeah, I feel sorry for mormons as well. They're just missing out on so much in life, especially the young ones imo.

Yeah, I believed strongly when I was a mormon. You can't expect your family to all leave the church they day they discover the "facts". It happens occasionally, but that's not normal. For me, it took years.

It's such a huge change leaving the church, it's not something people can do over-night. Sometimes a mormon might learn something about church history, but they dismiss it, and won't properly think it through in their heads until many months later. I had situations like that.

That's why I hate it when I see people on this board mocking other TBMs that dismiss facts. It's difficult for ANYBODY to be told they've been devoting everything they have to a lie. Give them time. It's such a drastic life decision to make, most people need time to think it over and gradually make adjustments. And when mormons are in that process, they're nearly always keep it secret from others. Some people you know might be on the verge of leaving the church right now, and you have no idea.

QWE - I agree and definitely don't expect something to happen "overnight". My struggle is whether or not to share it with them at all. I think it will only be met with the usual "Of course that's what the anti-mormons are telling you!"

Did someone share it with you? Did it make a difference? And have you shared it with family members since then?

saintdorothymantooth, We were born rivals I guess because I descend from the Willie handcart company. My grandfather was a Willie.

"them be fightin' words!" ;)

as long as you're not a Donner

It's a good idea for you to live your own life and for the most part let them live theirs. Be ready to support them in case they happen to see through the fog. There's no way to accurately predict what experiences others will have or how they'll react.

words to live by! Thank you!

"my question for you guys is this: How many of you were really roped in to the faith -- as in, the kind of TBM that could hear "facts" that discredit the church, but would make every excuse for the church because you KNEW (NOT believed) but "KNEW" it was true? Were any of you the kind who got up every F&T meeting and bore your soul with serious conviction? The kind who felt the spirit and not just said you did to placate everyone around you?"


That pretty well describes me, although I didn't speak up at every F&T meeting.

Here a couple (among many) reasons I dropped out:

1) My mother was as devout as they come (pioneer stock, etc.). But she was ill for many years and, despite blessing after blessing, she continued to suffer. When I began to experience the same symptoms that she had, I really couldn't believe in Christ as the great "healer."

2) I interacted with a couple of the general authorities, and I wasn't impressed. A friend of mine was overhelmed with the spirituality of the authorities; I experienced the ones I met as shallow and easily riled up.

I wish you the best as you learn just how fraudulent the church really is. I think you'll eventually conclude that your family members are self-deluded.

I was the totally roped in sort too. I KNEW it was true. I didn't bear my testimony much though. One thing I don't know is what I would have done had I found any real issues with the church. Until recently I hadn't heard any, only ridiculous things and minor issues that had reasonable explanations (like the 4000 "punctuation" changes in the BOM).

My marriage started breaking up before I started questioning the church and that's what really got me thinking. I had doubts before creep up every now and then but I had strong faith that I held onto. Now I started to wonder, if we can make mistakes with other aspects of our lives, why aren't we allowed to with who we marry? My ex is not a bad person but we are a horrible, horrible match. No matter how hard we tried it was like she was speaking Japaness and I was speaking goldfish.

There were a few other things that just weren't making sense at all and I needed to understand. I did a google search of "why I left the mormon church" assuming I'd find a bunch of bs excuses and hopefully some answers. The first thing I read was a letter someone had written and posted online for hjs family. He briefly mentioned 6 points that to him showed that the mormon church wasn't true. 4 weren't a big deal to me but 2 claims hit me hard. One was joe smith's polyandry (I knew about polygamy) and the other was the book of abraham. I researched both subjects and found that they were true, much to my horror and surprise. I started reading everything I could and studied myself right out of the church.

I suspect that if that wouldn't have happened I'd still be struggling along in a crappy marriage but it was too much for my ex and so here I am.

albertasaurus -- I'm sorry to hear about your marriage, but I'm glad you were able to get out of one that wasn't right for you.

Seeing all the unhappy marriages that surrounded me when I was a teen was one of the reasons I found it so easy to walk away in the first place. If tscc is supposed to bring you so much happiness, why was everyone I knew so miserable?

I was totally devout from the ages of 17 to 42. The rest of my family left the church during those years but I stayed because I truly believed. It took learning about the MAJOR changes to the doctrine of the Trinity for me to leave, but once I saw the changes to the scriptures for myself I was out within weeks.

There's always hope that your family will also leave. I'm single, and as I said above the rest of my family left way before I did so it was relatively easy for me.

I was definitely a true believer for a number of years - all the way in.

I was also a closet doubter for several more - no one would have guessed.