I've realized something today. Besides my BF, I don't really have many friends. I have a cousin nearby who I really like. I have one friend who is gone a lot of the time (Travel) who is worth about 100 acquaintances, and one other friend (for 15 years) but he lives in another state.

I spend all my time with my BF, or at class (only 1 day a week), or at my FT job, or at home, really just studying or spending the hours with my bf.

I want to say first- I am happy with my BF... that doesn't feel like it.... just...


I've picked up this book by Brene Brown - The gift of imperfections...

Through it I've realized that I have isolated myself, except for a few friends, who don't demand a lot of time (because they are gone some much) because I was so hurt when I left mormonism, and because the one or two friends I made afterward ended up not being the type of friend I wanted.

I've never been a girly girl, and I am uncomfortable with shopping and long talk sessions.... or is that again, my inability to be vulnerable wrapped in judgement to protect myself?

What I do know- I don't like dive bars, frivolous conversations, or fair weather friends. I also know that I am almost always uncomfortable with people... even friends I may have known for 15 years. Besides the one friend who travels alot... I can't say there are any others (even my cousin) who I am completely comfortable around.

I am starting to understand that that is a reflection of me, and how I view myself, and/or how I view myself around others.

I almost always have to MAKE myself go out. This has caused a lot of friends, I think, to leave me behind.


Here's the rub. I've painted myself so much into a "non ability to open up" corner, that I often don't have the desire to socialize... or is it that I really don't like to? I don't know anymore.

My personality set - INTJ (for what it is worth) does require copious amounts of time alone, but I am starting to wonder if that identifier is really a cloak for not having to be vulnerable and let people in.

I've begun to feel that "I only spend time with one person" syndrome kicking in. That sort of attachment I learned as a mormon.

Am I really lonely and disguising it in introverted needs?



This book is really doing a number on my head. A good one perhaps... an unraveling of my "view of myself" that has recently become... old.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 01:39PM by intjsegry.

I am very similar. My BF gets my full attention (because he's HOT!) no, but really. Don't beat yourself up about this. Some people don't need a plethora of friends. I can't handle a lot of social interaction. My cousin is REALLY social. She can't STAND to sit alone in her house by herself. She has to call a neighbor or go do something. I am perfectly comfortable hanging out with myself. She never undestood that about me and she used to mock me saying "wow, you're such a loner, you should get some friends."

Why though? Why should I get friends when I don't want them? I think there is a happy balance that can be made, but seriously, if you don't want a bunch of people around, then don't do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 01:11PM by Tupperwhere.

I absolutely hear everything you are saying. These are my thoughts also. I've realized just recently however, that, if I had a problem, besides my BF, who can't always have the "right" response, or the one I need... I really wouldn't know who to call... who to talk to.

I think i am feeling a loss at the lack of meaningful relationships in my life.

I know I do not want a lot of people around. I'd rather have 1 or 2 people I can talk to, really be myself with, then 100 people I don't really care about. I am also TERRIBLE and faking it... if I don't care, I won't fake it.

I suppose your challenge now is to find those 1 or 2 people that you really trust. It's hard though. Believe me, I've been where you're at right now.

I can relate.

I'm an introvert too and, at my core very sensitive and thin skinned. After many heartbreaks and people letting me down, I've developed a massive wall around myself. I'm very solitary. My family is not a source of comfort and my circle of 'real life' friends is quite small and consists only of people who I knew before the walls went up.

I know part of that is just my introversion (I enjoy being alone) and part of that is my distrust of my own ability to form friendships and partly that I feel undeserving of love.

I sound pretty fucked up (and I sort of am) but I'm strangely content inside my prison - and I'm not sure if that's out of my introversion or utter terror of the potential of being hurt again.

you are just like me. My TBM dad is VERY social and extroverted. He cannot understand why I don't have a ton of friends. It's really frustrating. I would rather have ONE good, loyal, nice friend then 12 fake ones.

This - "I know part of that is just my introversion (I enjoy being alone) and part of that is my distrust of my own ability to form friendships and partly that I feel undeserving of love."

This is how I feel. I distrust my ability to make the right friends. I distrust their ability to love me for me. However, I won't open up enough to be myself around them for fear of rejection, and shame. That distrust, creates the isolation.

"My family is not a source of comfort and my circle of 'real life' friends is quite small and consists only of people who I knew before the walls went up."

Is a very poignant observation. This is exactly what I have done. I have only allowed those who "survived the cut" to remain in my life. Those are the people who were there BEFORE the walls came up. My BF is the only "new addition." And to be honest, I can't say %100 that I've let him into my vulnerability... in fact, I can say absolutely that I have not.

"I sound pretty fucked up (and I sort of am) but I'm strangely content inside my prison - and I'm not sure if that's out of my introversion or utter terror of the potential of being hurt again."

Lastly, this is exactly right again. The difference for me is that I want to break that prison down... I am tired of isolation.

Brene Brown talks about how we numb the bad feelings with whatever we choose- drinking, movies, food... isolation, whatever. But here is the bad part--- you can't selectively numb. Your Joy, exubrance, life and love also numb... THIS is the pain I am feeling now. The loss of compassion, utter joy, and the ability to feel excited.

intjsegry Wrote:

> Brene Brown talks about how we numb the bad
> feelings with whatever we choose- drinking,
> movies, food... isolation, whatever. But here is
> the bad part--- you can't selectively numb. Your
> Joy, exubrance, life and love also numb... THIS is
> the pain I am feeling now. The loss of compassion,
> utter joy, and the ability to feel excited.

I agree, 100%. I look at photos of myself before my life hit the sh!t-fan and I wonder were she went. I guess that's why I feel strange about being content. Or maybe I've become a master of self-delusion and I'm not content at all. Oh bollocks... :-(

I have similar ones. That stupid mormon voice says "see you were happier". Self evaluation will tell me I was just covering and assimilating. Though, I have wondered where that simple joy went.

You may actually be content, or covering, only you, and time know that . :)

I thought I was happy in a self-induced isolation, now I am not so sure.

There is a difference between being an introvert and having social anxiety. It sounds like you're both. So, yeah, it's probably a good idea to push yourself just a little, to get past the social anxiety, but not too much. As an introvert, too much socializing would probably be exhausting and you'd hate it.
Being friends with other introverts can be easier, because they understand. They won't expect you to have tons of friends and a busy social life. Not everyone wants that.

Very, very good point. Social anxiety mixed with introversion. Sigh... I don't want to be overwhelmed, but I do feel a longing to shake up my life and be courageous and connected...

I wouldn't worry too much about how many friends you have. I would classify myself as an extrovert when I need/want to be and and introvert for the same reason. I have times when I want to be with friends and feel a need to be wanted and loved. I also have times when I just want to chill and do my own thing. Being married to twojedis, she is absolutely an extrovert and somehow manages to have meaningful relationships with a lot of people. I mostly let her drive our social life with a few exceptions when I want to invite friends over for shooting or watching UFC or some guy thing.

I will say that my friendships now after leaving the church are more meaningful and don't feel as shallow.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to recognize that there is NOTHING wrong with you. Accept your personality. You are unique. You have your own likes and dislikes and you shouldn't force yourself to do something you don't want to do. Second, there may be things in your past which could have influenced how you feel about having friendships. Perhaps you were burned in some of your relationships and now you are treading a little more carefully. Just recognize that about yourself and move on. And third, and most importantly, I have found that we human beings connect well with some and not so well with others. There are some people where the conversation is just awkward and others where neither of us can shut up, it's just a fascinating person and conversation.

If you feel the need to reach out and be more social, go for it. Be sure to put yourself in a setting where you will be comfortable and will most likely find people who share your interests.

Best of luck!

I like being around people/friends and I also like being alone. I think because I was so heavily involved with mormonism, for 20 yrs put up with my narcissistic wife, (now ex) had six kids, that I got burned out and like alone time.

I even find it difficult sometimes to be around my 4 adult children because they are so completely and totally tbm. My two youngest are still at the love unconditionally stage. My oldest 4 are so jugdemental and every conversation is about mormon sh*t, this or that movie is inappropriate, she looks like a slut... That I find it difficult to be around any mormon for any length of time.

I have enough friends, family members, aquaitenances and activities to fill my social needs, but I definately like being alone now that I'm an exmo.

I love being alone. I love that part of me. I really do. I love how I can be alone, how I need to.... I've long since accepted that part of me... though it did take YEARS. (esp. after the extroverted social requirement of mormonism)

the only thing for me is... Lately,l I have been feeling a lack of deep emotional connection... or deep emotions in general, like I used to... I guess I am missing it.

That is the rub.

I'm definitely an introvert too but growing up as a Mormon, I was never allowed to be. Mom and the church were always pushing me to go out for things, be at things, achieve things. What I always wanted was a small, core group of friends I'd known my whole life. People who liked the some of the same things like hanging out at the lake or going to a football game - but not all the same things, just to keep it interesting. I never wanted a big group of friends but that's what I got in the church. Having to fit in and constantly socialize but remembering that the best part of the day was always after the stake dance/scripture chase/ward party when I could come home, throw on an oversized t-shirt and climb into my bed with a book and a late night snack.

I guess what I'm saying is I like to go out and have fun and being pushed, I did a lot of things I wouldn't have otherwise but now that I can own being introverted and acknowledge I need alone time, I feel a thousand times more comfortable in my own skin.

Brene Brown just said something that totally sums up my fear of changing into someone else , or rather, letting myself change into myself...

"the fear that the people around me will struggle to make sense of how and why we are changing. Partners (and children) might feel fearful about the changes they are seeing. Friends and family may worry about how our authenticity practice will effect them, and our relationships with them. Some may find inspiration in our commitment, other may perceive that we are changing too much, maybe even abandoning them, or holding up an uncomfortable mirror.Having the Audacity of Authenticity."

I assume the fear happening before it even does. I fear my BF will be effected, and our relationship. Less time will have to be spent together.

In reality, if i do it right, it will help, I know this... it's just.... having the audacity to be authentic, and the courage to do it for myself.

I have to feel authentic, before I can really let people in. I think we've found the bottom, or at least the basement door...


I've lost so many "friends and family" leaving mormonism, it leaves me bruised and hesitant to shake up my life again. But I know I need to.

My best friends are my brother and my son. My wife is my life partner, and everyone else is acquaintance of some sort, some closer than others.

As you can see, I'm a man in need of some kind of greater community, and it might as well be virtual. So here I am, and I really like everyone on this board.

Stick around, int, and enjoy the conversation that never ends.

I too love this board. Thank you for the reminder. I guess what I am really missing is that "face to face" connection, that to be honest I have never had, well, not with another female. I have had a multitude of males friends.

I either ended up having to deny dating them (I don't say that to sound conceited... it was just that it started to turn into something I didn't want), or they are gay. The two friends I would say I am closest to are gay. One I "dated" in Utah, all through high school- the other helped me have a safe place to get out of mormonism.

I guess I look at these women who can chat it up, socialize, go out and have fun... and there is a part of me that wishes I was comfortable enough in my own skill to allow that type of relationship with a female.

I think what also gets in the way is a few things:

1) I don't like most women. I find them petty, contentious, and mean. The few that I have liked have turned on me for "dating my boyfriend" who she didn't like... or other silly things.

2) I don't like gossip, most "hit" shows, or fashion.

3) I like talking about deeper, more meaningful things. I like people who challenge me to think.

4) I don't have kids, I don't want them, I don't want to talk about them the entire time we are together. This is what happened with my old TBM friends... we'd all get together, they all had kids, so I'd sit there, disinterested, but pretend to pay attention to the hours of baby talk.

As a fellow INTJ, I completely identify. I always had more guy friends than gals while growing up, even though I was not necessarily a tomboy. For what it's worth, our Meyers-Briggs type is the absolute rarest type among women... which probably explains why we seem to have a hard time identifying with other women.

I am curious about this book you mentioned and will have to check it out now. Not having read it, all I can say at this point is that I gauge my loneliness based on how I feel physically after a social event. For me - as most introverts will find - I am physically drained after socializing. The larger the event, the more exhausted I am. If I am lonely and spend some time (no more than a couple hours) with a close friend or two and don't feel fatigued afterwards and that is how I know I needed it. If I do feel tired afterwards, I realize that THEY needed it more than I did. (And that's okay - that's what friendship is, being there for each other even when it isn't convenient). I have to look for clues to help me identify what I am feeling though. If I find myself reading the same paragraph over and over in a book, I have to ask myself is it because the book is dull or is it because this isn't really what I need right now?

I probably shouldn't be posting right now (I'm on post-op pain meds, so I plead temporary insanity!) but had to pipe in... if ya ever want to message me off the board, just holler. :)

I understand. I am INTP and I prefer being alone, but I have a need for connection to others and to have a friend or two to lean on for support. I have also never been a girly girl so I never felt I had much in common with most girls when younger. In addition, Mormonism forces a wall between you and nonMormons. I will never be someone with a lot of friends, but I learned to put myself out there to find others I am compatible with.

You are me in a nutshell.

Yeah, I tend to be much the same way. I was especially that way as a closet doubter in Utah.

So here's some thoughts. First one of my mini-soapboxes of Mormonism. In Mormonism I always felt this intense pressure to change who I was, to become good enough. It's one of the biggest things I've learned to let go off. Or I should say that I'm learning to let go of - but I've made that mental shift that I am not longer trying to "become" and it's very freeing.

So if this is who you are and what you like - go for it - embrace it. So what? Why do you have any need to be something else?

With your personality is the relationship with your BF sufficient for you? Do you feel happy? Do you feel lonely? Do you feel fulfilled in this area? Forget about if who you are is OK - do you want something to be different and to change?

For example, my personal experience has been that with leaving Mormonism I have largely lost my best friend - my wife. We are still married and friends but the closeness and intimacy has largely disappeared. So with that change I have felt more of a need for friends elsewhere and have forced myself to come out of my shell - especially in the ex-mormon community. I've also done so in the cycling community somewhat as well.

I've found, as you, "what to talk about" is one of the biggest challenges. That is where meeting with people with a similar situation makes it so easy for me. With leaving Mormonism there is an unlimited amount of stuff to talk about. We often stray from discussing Mormonism and its impact on is, but it always provides a starting point and plenty of fodder.

So I guess my thought/advice/idea/what works for me is this if you feel you do want to interact more socially. Develop an interest that also has a social aspect to it. This works really well as a introvert because there is always a safe fall back - there is always a topic of conversation available - the common interest. I have found as I have put myself out there a little, it has been very rewarding for me and I've made a lot of friends. I literally feel like I now have dozens of friends in the exmo community - you being one of them. As an introvert I've been surprised at how amazingly good that has felt and the warm fuzzies and warmth I feel, feeling like I belong and am among friends.

One more thought - for me the social thing is I don't want to impose myself on others. That's where online is a more comfortable venue for me - people can choose to read what I have written or not, so I don't feel the imposition of taking up there time.

The common interest groups as help with this. When you are all there to talk about a topic - it doesn't feel like an imposition because it's already established that everyone is there to discuss the topic.

All wonderful points.

I'll address a few of them.

First, everything with BF is good. We actually had a long talk about all of this last night. The only "issue" I have had between us, is that he can get kind of negative, judgemental, and needy sometimes. He tends to be a little quick to temper (never at me- just as silly things, like the cats, a screw not going in right. etc.) which really irritates me because it changes the mood of whatever it is we are doing, even if it is a good occassion that could potentially be fun and uplifting. Like putting together new furniture in our new place, or whatever.

We occassionally have communication issues because each of us don't listen as well as we should. Growing up in households where we were hardly ever heard, we both rush to get our opinion in without really hearing eachother.

We talked about all that, and he mentioned working on his attitude. We also are working on really listening and not allowing the other person to stop the flow of words, excitement or passion about what we are talking about. This has really helped, a lot. I finally felt last night, like I could get out a full thought, even if it took 5 mintues, before it was derailed by turning the subject elsewhere or to him comparing it to something in his life.

So, overall things there are good.

I really think what I am missing, is that I have always wanted a relationship with a girl that wasn't superficial, petty, and... well unfulfililng. I've always wanted to meet someone who challenges me, and someone I can feel comfortable around...



I feel that I have finally begun to seperate "what I have been told I should be" with "what I want to be." This is what is driving this desire for change, not a need to conform. I want this for me.

I wasn't meaning to question the quality of your relationship with your BF but to question, for you, if it alone is enough to fulfill your social needs and desires.

It sounds like the short answer to that is "no." You aren't feeling completely lost or lonely but you are feeling that you are missing out on something that you want in your life.

As you well know, you can't force that to happen. That's one of the challenges for us as introverts - what we want is a few very deep relationships. However, to find these you have to first develop a lot of less deep relationships to find ones where you really click and where that depth develops.

So then, I guess, the next question is. How badly do you want this? Do you want it badly enough to work around (not change) your social anxiety and introverted approach?

Finally one more note: This isn't a completely fair comparison because I have fairly close to the middle on the introvert/extrovert line - introvert is home base but I can switch to extrovert fairly easily if I want to put in energy.

With that said - I've noted the following:

It's fairly easy to be a good conversationalist in most cases. The trick is to just ask about them. I find people fascinating and all I have to do is let that fascination shine through and they usually have plenty to say. All I have to do is occasionally contributing something about myself or viewpoints for a little balance.

The more I do it the more comfortable I become and the less anxiety I feel. It's been more fun than I thought it would be. Again, at least for me, the key is having an established common interest or purpose that always gives you something to talk about - no worry that the conversation will run dry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 12:02PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

No assumptions taken. I knew you weren't questioning my happiness, just giving me room to question it myself. :) - but as you mentioned you liked to do, you asked, and the interest just comes pouring out. :) So thanks for that. Also, thanks for claiming me as a friend. I return the sentiment. I knew pretty early on we'd click intellectually. So I appreciate the time and attention you have given my post.

I'm not sure how much i want it. I'll have to work through that as I work through this new book (the Brene Brown book). Perhaps what I really want is to try harder at the ones I already have. Call my cousin more, make an effort, call my friend in Vegas more... and see if I can handle those things in a safe place... then, expand from there.

I'm thinking of attending the Portland Meetup as well. It is literally less than 2 miles from my place... I can walk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 12:13PM by intjsegry.

You make an excellent point on the idea of just doing more to work on deepening and expanding the relationships you already have - good call.

It sounds like the meetup will be a great move - and hey, you'll have twojedis there to welcome you. I was quite nervous the first time I went to one and have really enjoyed them - the instant camaraderie that exists is quite amazing. A lot of people kind of sit back and observe and that works too - there is no pressure to say a lot from my experience - it's kind of like listening to the stories told here on RFM but first hand.

The Oncoming Storm - bc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One more thought - for me the social thing is I
> don't want to impose myself on others.

Doesn't that say something about your self esteem though? I do the same thing. I don't want to "bother" people but if you really think about it, why do you feel that way? Do you think you're not important enough or valuable enough? Other people impose themselves on me all the time and I really doubt they ever feel guilty about it. It's a problem I have too though. People should be happy to see us no matter what time of day dammit! :)

Yes, I totally felt like I constantly had to try and be more social to fit in at church. I always hated going to RS activities. After 15 years of trying, all its ever been is a torture exercise for me. And then you have to deal with the guilt trip they give you when you don't show up. I Have no close friends in my ward, and making new friends is super hard, and a big deal to me. And don't get me started on the torture and guilt of Visiting Teaching. So even though I'm still "active" at church, losing my testimony has at least relieved me of feeling obligated to torture myself anymore. Bring on the guilt trip. I don't care, I'm not going anymore.

I can relate...I am that way as well. It's been difficult being a single woman because most single women my age like to go to bars, and I never have. I am learning that I prefer to be alone than go to there and don't mind if they leave me behind. I agree, finding like-minded people is the way to go. Why force something that isn't there? Your not alone. :) You may have found some kindrid spirits right here on RfM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 11:22AM by hope.

Ugg, going to a bar definitely sounds like torture.

Torture indeed!