There are about a million things wrong with the church that I put on my shelf for years but Prop 8 was my tipping point. That was it and I left and never looked back.

So...after spending an enjoyable evening dinner out with my family tonight, dh and I are just finishing up putting the kids to bed when we hear the doorbell. Surprise (how predictable) it's the missionaries and the BISHOP.

I usually blow them off but I wanted to take this opportunity to get things off my chest.

So they sit down and we small talk a bit. One of the mishes is from VA and apparently his mom is a democrat and he's met Obama blah blah... (dh says they did their homework on me and it's best to send someone that they have some common ground with).

Then we get to the first awkward silence. The bishop then says "I'm going to behold and ask, why don't you guys come to church?"

I was actually shocked. So I opened the flood gates (in the nicest way possible). I think I covered all the biggies - Joseph Smith problems, BoM, the corporation, the politics, sexism, homophobia, the culture....it was like I took that opportunity to say EVERYTHING since no Mormon ever cared to ask.

Get this, his response...he started to CRY. No joke. He said he had been praying all week about us and was going to extend us a calling! What in the hell?!?!

In a desperate attempt to lighten the mood, I said, you must have gotten your wires crossed with the big guy eh lol. FAIL.

Then he said, well we really need help in the ward and we would really love your service, would you accept the calling? WHAT?! I said Bishop, you still want to extend a calling to us after everything I just said to you? He said hey doesn't hurt to try.

Omg and the poor missionaries. The senior companion looked like he was going to punch me in the face. Probably because I told him he looked like a baby and knows nothing about his religion lol. And he had a very aggressive testimony to share with me! All red in the face!

The Jr companion was seriously concerned about what I had said. He was like where did you find that info? How do you know that? I've never heard of that...I may have planted a seed with that one. I told him, well soon you will have internet access and can find out. The bishop quickly gathered the missionaries and said they were late to their next appointment (saved by the bishop!)

I wouldn't be surprised if I heard from that jr

If they dump themselves on you late at night, you have a right to dump on them.

Whoa, yeah, you let them have it good, goldenrule. I did that the last time they came to my place, and I haven't seen hide nor hair of them all since. Yay!

Good job!!!

I'm hoping for a opportunity like this. My bish is so afraid of me I don't think i'll ever see him again. Same with the SP.

Those whimps might send some unsuspecting missionaries to my door though.

I have to say, I feel so sorry for those kids. I'll be more sensitive and kind to them. However, I won't spare them the truth.
They can use my computer if they don't believe me.

The aggressive sr mish just kept saying the church is perfect the people are not, over and over! It was insane.

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The aggressive sr mish just kept saying the church
> is perfect the people are not, over and over! It
> was insane.

So they invite themselves to YOUR house sit down and ask YOU a
personal question and when you give them an honest answer they
can't deal with it. They don't LISTEN to what you say, they
just go on with their cliches, don't they?

"You said 'the church is perfect, the people are not.' Did
you make that up yourself or are you just repeating what
you've been told?"

There's imperfect, and then there's "intrinsically dishonest." No good, let alone perfect, organization is composed of liars and sycophants.

If the Church is perfect how come so few people believe in it?

"The fact you think your church is perfect is just proof I know more about the church than you do."

Honestly - they need some new material.

In reality the church is a load of bull pucky and the people who cling to it keep trying to mold it into something resembling a charitable organization without success. It's not their fault that the material they are working with is not sufficient for the job. It's their fault for not realizing they are working with nothing more than bull pucky.

"The church is true, the people are not. The church is true, the people are not. The church is true the people are not....."


REPLY: "Elder, your listening skills leave a lot to be desired. Repeating a tired and inaccurate phrase like that is not only an insult to my intelligence but a confirmation to me that you are not adequately prepared to teach your religion. You are not familiar with any of the facts I have presented to you this evening are you? Therefore your uninvited presence in my home is not only unappreciated but a complete waste of my time. Good-bye."

"the church is perfect the people are not"

That is a lie, The People are the church

He obviously expected you to share his complete lack of integrity.

"If I can fake it as Bishop, can't you just fake it as Nursery Leader? I'll also let you clean the chapel!"

Glad you schooled those pushy fools.

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Then he said, well we really need help in the ward
> and we would really love your service, would you
> accept the calling?

They don't listen to you. These people do not care about you at
all. They just wait until sound stops coming out of your mouth
and then they say the next line in their program.

Those were my exact thoughts as I had poured my heart out for nearly 2 hours and his response is, uh well can you still babysit for 2 hours every Sunday? I just shook my head and thought, how uninspired. Even if I was considering going back (which I will NEVER do), primary is the absolute LAST place I would want to be.

They just didn't seem to get that my life doesn't revolve around the church and I can't be guilted into providing free labor for them anymore. I told the bishop that the church was an emotional and financial drain that made me depressed and miserable and he still pushed for us to accept some stupid ass calling. Unbelievable.

This is a little freaky because my MP shared a story several times in zone conferences about what a genius he was in Spokane. There was a family he wanted to reactivate as a young bishop, so he went out to the family's house and told the guy he had to quit smoking/drinking/whatever else so that he could be 2nd counsellor in the bishopric. It worked nearly overnight.

I think the moral was that some losers if allowed to become complacent will do so. However, anyone that is/was in churchco. will straighten up to become useful - they're just waiting for the chance. What couldn't be the case is that they found out it's a cult created by a con man.

The Bishop's head must have melted. He prayed about you having a calling and got a confirmation from the Spirit that it was right.
Whoops.

I also think it is telling that, no matter your level of belief, the Church is so short of members he was still desperate for you to carry some of the load. Pathetic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 05:11AM by Stumbling.

I've often heard it said that no one has bothered to ask us why we left. No one has asked me.

Well, he asked. LOL They might want to stick with not asking.

It is your home. They have ZERO right to stop by and impose themselves on you.

I just kick them off the property.

Wowza. This post gives me the heebie-jeebies. FREAKS!

;o)

AWESOME!!!!!

And in a comedic moment, I pictured you (when the bishop began to cry) doing as bishops so often do, and sliding a box of Kleenex oh-so-discretely across the coffee table toward him.

Great work. They have no clue. Truly.

Seeds planted. Even for mister red face.

I have to say that I had the same experience with crying from two separate TBM's when I "calmly" explained a myriad of issues with the church and why I don't believe.

Emotional/intellectual children for life. This is what the church creates in many of the members. Not all, but many.

"Crying makes your testimony true"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 09:15AM by AmIDarkNow?.

I once cried in front of an investigator and it worked, for a while anyway. On my mission we were teaching the town drunk, and I was a greenie. I had really high hopes for his family and I liked them a lot. He really enjoyed the lessons, and him and his wife seemed really interested. But when I returned once to see him in a drunken stupor, I was crushed and I started to cry uncontrollably. I didn't do it on purpose though, it was genuine, I really loved that guy and I hated to see him destroy his life like that. We found out later that when he saw me cry it touched him, so he sobered up, got baptized with all his family and were sealed in the temple. All the neighbors were amazed at his change. It was one of the best success stories in the mission. However, a year later he got back into drinking & stopped attending. I think his whole change at first was based on the fact that he knew I cared about him, and it really had nothing to do with the gospel. I've never before or since cried for someone like that, but it sounds like the bishop in this story was a faker anyway.

Great job.

The bishop was just using the age old tactic of trying to make people feel useful and needed. It is a psychological trick to try get people committed to an organization or product.

We need you. We all want to be needed. But he was disingenous in his attempt.

Yes, exactly. Even in the missionary broadcast when a member's husband said "Yes" when asked to come to church they asked him why he did so. His response was, "It feels good to be wanted." This has nothing to do with truth, testimony, charity, or gaining any knowledge. It's all about just feeling wanted and needed by someone else. I think we underestimate how unloved and unwanted many people feel. To think the Mormon church is the only place a person feels wanted or needed is rather sad.

Good grief, what a cry baby bishop! And the mishies aren't any better.

That's enough of a reason not to go their church.

Exactly. It's got the whole creep factor. They don't see it because they get positive reinforcement of their nobility when they return and report how your heart is hardened.

He's crying because deep down he knows he's on the wrong side of history.

And what the heck was he thinking cold calling so late in the evening (kids already in bed)?

'The ward needs you' = Nobody else will accept this job.

I like to imagine the scene in your living room looking something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrJewOQYd0

2 hours ???? !!!!

2 hours of anything is over the top...

What a bunch of whack jobs...


This is a perfect example of the 'top down' pyramid structure of life here on Earth...

All the bottom feeders in the trenches...

All the suits and ties at the apex, living the good life...

You planted a seed with each of the Three Stooges...

Good for you!


They will be out soon enough; it may take a year or three...

"The church is perfect. The people are imperfect."

I never understood this even as a TBM. The church is the people. It's a body.

If they're referring to the organizational structure then since when has it been perfect? It's changed so many times. Even the name has changed several times.

You did awesome, goldenrule. Good for you!

Seriously! This drives me crazy. My FIL uses this one all the time. He uses the "Joseph was just a man like us and had human failings" argument as well. The next time he brings that one up I need to say "Sure, I mess up all the time. But I don't go out and F--- other mens wives and young girls. Shouldn't a prophet be held to a higher standard?" Oh, the stupidity!

wow... that was very well done, and got a lot off your mind -- to exactly the right people! How often does that opportunity present itself.

We're back to the same old thing: as non-believers, we need to teach and inform the members so they have the real reasons we left, not the ones they use to explain everything away.

That was cathartic! :-)

We have been to church MAYBE twice in the last 6 months. And the only visit from the VT's was when they heard that my wife was really sick....so they brought over a cake......now, don't get me wrong, we really did appreciate the cake, but only for the cake's sake. No visits from the HT's. Really enjoying the quiet.

Goldenrule,

I just sat down with my morning coffee and read your post. What a fantastic way to start out my day!

That was so brave of you, and I bet cathartic, as well. I am so proud of your forthright honesty and that you got to let loose on the subject of church politics, bigotry, homophobia, and the entire culture of falsehood and subservience.

Kudos!

I know this isn't the main point but showing up at your door late evening without an invitation is just sooooo unacceptable. It's like they are planning a covert military operation. "Let's jump this family at night when they are off their guard!"

I think the new, UNimproved,UNinspired missionary program is going to fall flat if not blow-up in the faces of the church. And it will be the ignorant 18 year old missionaries who take all the flack.

I'm with you on this behavior. The drop-in behavior of the church members, missionaries and/or leaders in this regard is incredibly discourteous. Why bother to have a ward directory with phone numbers listed if they don't use it?

So I just have to ask, because I'm super, super curious. Was it the senior companion that was from VA?

“It doesn’t hurt to try” or maybe if asking doesn’t work on you tears will?
What an awful position to be BP these days. He was really really hoping you’d be willing to come to church and help out by doing a calling! Poor guy.

He has to do this all himself and he’s remembering when the pews were full, life in the church was fun, and everyone came to church and it was one big happy functioning family. Now he is a Bishop, and his Mamma is so proud of him, and he has a ward that is bleeding members and what is left is the non-thinking sheeple! Of course that could drive him to tears!

And I guess we know why the Sr. companion is the Sr. companion. He’s worked hard to drink the koolaide and now you’ve just given his thinking companion something to question more than he’s already been doing…why he might even hang up his hat and go home! How dare he! He’ll make the Sr. companion look bad….and you must never make a Mormon look bad, especially if he has aspirations of being something in the leadership

They must be really desperate if they are calling on inactives to fill the job openings at church. The church is nothing without its volunteer workforce, and it sounds like the available workforce is getting thin.