In your opinion,which one is more TBM and strict on the rules of Mormonism?

I have degrees from both (BS from BYU in Psychology, MBA from UVU).

UVU does not have a Mormon vibe at all, and to my eyes, has gone to some length to distance the institution from prevailing Utah County culture. There is no on-campus housing, and thus no headaches associated with enforcing any kind of standards on the student body.

Many of the faculty are quite liberal at UVU. In terms of instruction, I had my best and worst instructors at the Y; UVU is an institution where many faculty are just starting out, so many of them put forth a great deal of effort even if they weren't particularly good at instructing.

BYU seems to offer widely varying experiences. I never lived on-campus and was always employed full-time while attending, so I didn't get immersed in its culture. The only issue I ever had was with storing guns in my apartment (which BYU tries to prohibit but legally cannot due to how Utah state law is written).


If you want to avoid any religious sub-culture, go for UVU. On a resume, BYU will look better for some things, particularly any hard science or engineering field. If you're getting a degree in a humanities or social sciences field, both are about equal.

"UVU does not have a Mormon vibe at all, and to my eyes, has gone to some length to distance the institution from prevailing Utah County culture."

I've never set foot on BYU so I can't really compare, but it's been my experience at UVU there is definitely a Mormon presence.

The New missionary age of 18 is greatly affecting UVU. It is causeing a great decrease in their enrollment according to my cousin who works there. Hopefully things will pick up for them when these youngsters return home in two years (or maybe before if they get too homesick).

UVU is not owned or affiliated with the Morg. It is a state-run, secular school. (Of course, its still in Utah County, so the Morg does have its influence in terms of 90-ish% of the students and faculty are going to be LDS)

If you drink a glass of wine while you're attending BYU, they kick you out. If you drink a glass of wine while you're attending UVU (assuming you don't do it someplace where that is prohibited), the worst they can do is tell on you to your mom.

If you don't go to church at least most of the time at BYU, they kick you out. If you never go to church for your entire UVU experience, no one in the administration will bat an eye.

If you quit the Morg while you're attending BYU, they kick you out. If you quit while you're attending UVU, they probably won't even notice.

Wow, if BYU had been that strict about church attendance when I was there I'd probably have transfered to another school and been out of LDS, Inc. a lot sooner. I hope they keep up the fascist rules. Kids today won't stand it for long.

It has been that way since about 1990, I found ways around, I probably went to church a grand total of about 3 times while at BYU

It was instituted during my last three years there, the first year I begged forgiveness and promised to change my ways. Didn't happen, so I moved into another ward, where I told the bishop I had a girlfriend in Logan and was attending her ward. It worked! As I remember it the ecclesiastical endorsement was for the upcoming year so I didn't have to get another one. My senior year however I did have a nazi roomate who didn't like my girlfriend spending most nights over, I think he narc'd me out because my last few months the bishop was constantly trying to set up a meeting with me and just blew him off and played out the clock and just barely managed to graduate before getting kicked out. Then it was hasta la vista muthafukkas!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2013 04:18PM by ladell.

I've taught adjunct at both schools. One of the things that you're dealing with at UVU is that it has grown from being a small trades type school, into a 2 year college and now recently into a university headed by Elder Holland's son. It's also an open enrollment school, which is fine, I suppose, but it means you're also not going to get the same academic rigor you might get at another location which would be more selective. The students in the classes I taught had a wide range of ability and I came to understand that I could expect almost no consistent background in the skill set they brought to class. To put it bluntly, some of the students would have a hard time beating a sack of rocks at checkers, BUT there were lots of other students who were extremely intelligent and hard working that were a delight to work with. I did enjoy the wider range of personalities, thought processes, backgrounds, and age range (including one very bitter exmo ex-lawyer divorcee). In the department I taught at a lot of the professors and adjunct instructors had some kind of prior BYU involvement. They had either taught at BYU fulltime and were now retired and teaching adjunct, been BYU students themselves, had taught adjunct at BYU and then got on fulltime at UVU, etc. Funny enough, this group of instructors are actually generally very very solid and I was honored to be grouped in with them. The students benefited a lot by the background this group shared with the Y as well as their external professional histories. I told my UVU students regularly that they were getting the best that I had at the Y, since some of these faculty had really been my best instructors. I told my students at UVU that I would probably choose UVU or BYU now due to the quality of the instructors they now had available to them, even though things are still starting out and settling down in that major and it's not likely to be heavily supported for a while.

As far as TBM, that ranges widely among the students and faculty. Students who are TBM choose to be so and there's almost no assumption that anyone is active or inactive. There's a broader acceptance of each other for their individual qualities, not for their religious affiliation. If someone were to go inactive, they're not going to be harrassed by the faculty or have to worry about leaving the school. It was actually an eye opening experience for me, more so than the out of state grad school I attended where I was the only LDS person.

I think the lack of the Honor Code gestapo helps as well. Students don't have to "watch" each other in their living spaces. The apartment complexes don't have to be watching each other. And the instructors don't have to be wary of saying the wrong the thing that may upset their Big Sky Man. I didn't realize what a direct effect the Honor Code office had until I had a little run in with them when I had started teaching at the Y again. It really creeped me out. I saw not only the effect it had on me, but also the effect it had on the faculty. They pretty much shriveled up and I had to resolve the matter on my own. It was such a silly thing too, just a question about where I had been attending church and a mistaken statement by a former bishop. I may have applied for a fulltime spot that I was likely to get there, if I hadn't had that run in. After that experience I decided that I would never teach there fulltime.

There's no rules stating you can be kicked out for drinking, smoking, swearing, sex, etc. You can live anywhere you want when attending UVU. My BF and several friends attended and graduated from UVU. Most are hard-core partiers.

My son will be a senior next year at UVU. He originally planned to transfer to UofU after two years but has had such great experiences with his professors in his major that he decided to stay at UVU.

All of the professors in his major spend a lot of time mentoring students, helping them apply to grad schools, getting internships, etc.

I believe that all of his major profs are non-LDS. One even scheduled a required Saturday lab oblivious of the fact that it was the Saturday of GC. When a few students complained he shrugged and said if they couldn't make it because of their religious convictions then he would give them an alternative assignment - everyone showed up, even the Mormon students.

One of the recently elected student body reps is an openly gay man (still LDS). There was a nasty email letter sent out anonymously to the student body regarding his candidacy but there was a lot of backlash reaction to it from both students and faculty/staff.

I know several of the admins for President Holland and they say he does get a lot of complaints from LDS parents about the "liberal agenda" of some UVU faculty. One parent complained that his student was not allowed to pray in class. Another complained about an inappropriate film showed in class. Generally, Holland has been supportive of academic freedom and defuses these complaints. I dont' know of any examples where he has asked any faculty member to change their teaching or curriculum in reponse to LDS sensitivities.

caedmon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know several of the admins for President Holland
> and they say he does get a lot of complaints from
> LDS parents about the "liberal agenda" of some UVU
> faculty. One parent complained that his student
> was not allowed to pray in class. Another
> complained about an inappropriate film showed in
> class. Generally, Holland has been supportive of
> academic freedom and defuses these complaints. I
> dont' know of any examples where he has asked any
> faculty member to change their teaching or
> curriculum in reponse to LDS sensitivities.

Wow...what a bunch of big freaking babies those parents are. Their "kids" are grown adults! They can decide for themselves regarding their education. If the parents wanted to control their grown adult children, they should have sent them to Rick's Big Churchy High School...um I mean BYU-I.

I applied for BYU, but missed the deadline by one day. Absolutely no-go. So I called UVU, was told to come right over, met with a counselor, and started my first class a few weeks later. Had a great experience my entire time there.

Had I gotten into BYU, I would have been forced to spend time and money on religion classes. What a waste that would have been!

My younger TBM sister was rejected by BYU for a transfer. She was devastated. Here he is an active TBM, an RM, with great grades, & they rejected her. The only thing we could think of is that they rejected her because she wouldn't have "fit in".

She's ended up graduating from a UC, with a better education.

I went to uvu when is was uvsc and I really enjoyed it. The campus was nice, the faculty seemed to be very good for such an institution and there really wasn't a mormon agenda in play. The only mistake I made was living in BYU approved housing. People would rat each other out there like it was a kindergarten. I saw so many people get kicked out of their apartments for minor infractions it was crazy.

I graduated from UVU in 2011. When I enrolled there, I thought I was "settling." I couldn't have been more wrong. I got a terrific education and went on to a top grad school (largely because I learned so much at UVU). Maybe I'm just a proud Wolverine, but I felt very much at home there as a non-Mo and loved it.

The department for my major was fantastic, with many gifted, caring professors who personally mentored me, helped me, and gave me excellent career advice and preparation. My peers in my program were smart and talented, too. I'm still close friends with a handful of them.

Even though Holland started his job as president while I was there, I think he made a big effort to NOT turn UVU into BYU's lesser cousin down the hill. He attended plays, started a campus-wide reading program, and frequently roamed the halls talking to students. I never felt he was trying to be churchy or favor the LDS students.

There are plenty of flaming liberal non-Mo, ex-Mo, and never-Mo faculty and adjuncts, plus a big contingent of liberal students. There's a very large, very vocal club that supports LGBT rights and awareness, as well as religious clubs that include Muslim, Protestant, and pagan. I knew many atheists and non-religious faculty and students, too.

Sure, there are some obnoxiously Mormon people there, but they don't run the campus, nor do they seem to be the majority, at least in my experience.

Plus, there's a Starbucks cafe in the library, and several more places on campus that sell coffee!

In your opinion,which one is more TBM and strict on the rules of Mormonism?

BYU. Not even close.

There are plenty of good little TBMs attending UVU. I assume most of them didn't get into BYU but still wanted to be close to the celestial action so opted for UVU. You see flyers posted for churchy events put on by ....what's college level Seminary called again....?...destitute....prostitute....INSTITUTE! that's it.

What UVU has that BYU does not have is lots of "anything but BYU material" Students wearing shorts and tank tops, tats, all lengths of hair in various colors, free thinking, free expression, honest exploration of life's tough questions. Not so much of the "we already have the answers so why worry?" mentality. The student newspaper isn't particularly hard hitting but every edition I've read contains things that would never get past the censors at BYU.

It is still in the middle of Utah Valley so it isn't hard to find the Mormon influences, they are in abundance. It's the absolute, iron-fisted, Mormon control that is conspicuously absent. I think the result is that UVU has a far more vibrant and dynamic feel to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2013 01:52PM by koriwhoremonger.

I was at UVU. Not strict at all. "There are plenty of good little TBMs attending UVU. I assume most of them didn't get into BYU but still wanted to be close to the celestial action so opted for UVU." Very true!
I took a philosophy class at UVU that used the book "Women and Authority: Re-Emerging Mormon Feminism" if that tells you anything. Also took a womens studies class that was fairly risqué.

I go to UVU and love it. There is definitely a mormon presence on campus, but its not that bad. The only thing I don't like is walking through one building where they are constantly trying to recruit for institute. Last semester I was pretty heavily involved in the LGBT club, and that's where I met a lot of former mormons. Speaking of that, even though Holland is the HGIC and was responsible for helping to write Prop 8, he didn't try to stop us from putting on the play 8, about the prop 8 trials.

I graduated from UVU 10 years ago. I had also gotten my 2nd and 3rd Associate degrees from UVCC in 1991. There was definitely a change in the 10 years between my 2-year degree and going back for my bachelors, as far as it getting more of a mormon feel to it. I've heard that with Deputy Dawg's son as the Pres, it's getting worse. But that said, it's still WAY better than BYU. I was exmo when I went back and I could wear sleeveless shirts, never went to church and had a good rapor with many of the professors, especially since many were my age. There are some super duper great exmo or no-mo professors there.

But academically, I can say that I was challenged much more in many of my high school classes in the 60s and 70s. Academics in the U.S. has just gotten dumbed down overall, I think. That was a good thing since I was also working full time and was a single mother while I was going to school for my paralegal degree.

But I did have to go to the Dean about one professor who, I assume, thought everyone was LDS. He made some very disparaging remarks about the non-LDS students. The last straw was when he said that it was easier to be an adjunct teacher there now because when it was UVCC it was full of non-mormons or jack-mormons and you had to take a break every 15 minutes and let them go out and have a smoke break or they'd "all" be too jittery to sit in class. When I went to the Dean, I was the 3rd person who had been to him with similar complaints. A week later, in the middle of the semester, the teacher was fired and someone else took over the class. I was impressed, especially since the Dean was LDS and former BYU professor. But he seemed genuinely appalled about that situation. I was so happy. That guy (the adjunct) was such an arrogant mormon prick.

I might be going to UVU this fall. Once I find out if I get a job in Salt Lake paying good money. If I don't get it I'll be attending UVU. Hearing people say it's a good school makes me feel better.

is this the same UVU that would not allow Michael Moore to speak there ?

Michael Moore did speak at UVU.

There was huge push back from the local Mormon community, but the show was allowed to proceed. Sean Hannity was brought later to speak as a counter-point.

There is a student documentary on the topic called "This Divided State":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Divided_State

Sean Hannity says his travel costs were $49,000. It does not cost that much to travel anywhere. UVU will probably never have him speak there again.