I've been hearing on the board that some bishops are becoming rather hostile toward members if they don't attend church regularly. Also, I'm hearing that BYU will kick a student out if their church attendance is not at a certain level.

Does this mean that directives are coming from above that wards/branches must have certain attendance rates and if so how far up the corporate ladder are these directives generated?

My current ward has the highest attendance in our stake, but membership attendance is slipping. The stake has noticed. And currently our BP is bringing up the topic in ward council. He doesn't have any specifics on what we are supposed to do.

But yes to the OP. They try.

When I was in the Bishopric, the bishop would always say, "add 10 to the count in Sac meeting, because there are proly about 10 babies that we can't see...in the seats and out in the foyer."

Seems the system is designed to encourage lying with regard to the numbers. I don't blame the bishop one bit for padding the stats. However, if there aren't enough members to support a ward then what's wrong with letting the ward be dissolved? That would be more sensible. Then sell the property.

Nailed it. I gave the count to the appointed bishopric member and he said "there are three pregnant sisters, did you count them twice?" I laughed until I realized he WASN'T JOKING! He just wrote down down any old number on his sheet-my count was too low I guess.

It doesn't matter if you have ten or 100 in the chapel. You still use the same amount of electricity. Basing the budget on sacrament attendance is sort of arbitrary as far as need is concerned.

A bishop could get creative and invite homeless people to sacrament meeting and explain to them that if they stay until the count is taken he'll give them some kind of incentive like jelly donuts (not meaning to be disrespectful of homelessness). I might, if I was the bishop, ask another church to help out in the same way.

My point here is that making money (ward budget) the punishment for low attendance doesn't seem to help the situation of inactivity. It just creates a bigger problem which is lack of funds to increase activities or other means of helping the "less active" in a real way. It only makes a bishop's job harder with no alternative but to try and guilt people. Is that what Jesus would do?

When I was in Germany we were a branch that meet in a hotel. They rented one large room for us to use. The Branch President was upset he said he needed more people so that the church would build a building for the branch. The branch president had 5 daughters most of them were inactive but he made them come with their boyfriends to up the numbers. Branch President even said that he would like to get people of the streets just so he can fill all the seats she we could have a building. Well after a couple of years they build a building but that was when they had a new branch president. My mom attends that building they are now a ward and the attendance is very low. My guess is that in Germany ward buildings are at least 30 min apart from each other so if they would close down one ward the members would have to drive further.

budget allocation is based on butts in chairs during sacrament meeting. the clerk compiles the average attendance for the last month of the quarter and submits it to the stake and HQ. A budgetary figure is assigned per attendee. also figured into this allocation is the number of youth attending. A ward with a high number of youth will have a bigger operating budget allocation than a ward with a high number of older folks.

Yes. Every member and leader up the chain to the top is under pressure from those above them to have better statistics. Its a goal oriented organization and they pressure the leaders below them to do better with what they are in charge of.

Elders Quorum presidents are pressured by the Bishops to have better hometeaching stats. Bishops are pressured by Stake Presidents to have better attendance levels. Stake Presidents are pressured from above to also have better attendance levels. Missionaries are pressured from their mission presidents to have more baptisms. Mission presidents are pressured from the GA's to have more baptisms.

My ward had very high attendance. Over 50% I think. So I wouldn't know, since we always got praised about it (although still told we could improve, etc.).

Bishops will obviously always be told to increase activity rates. It's a given really. It's probably similar to when you're on a mission, you need as many converts as possible to look good for your Mission President.

I had a home teacher in the bishopric. He was VERY upset that I chose to attend another ward's sacrament meeting for several months. I was scolded big-time! I guess my absence hurt the "numbers."

I told my HT that it matters not to God where I attend and take the Sacrament. His response was short-tempered and direct, "Oh yes it does." To which I looked down for about 90 seconds of silence, than looked at him straight in the eyes in front of his 12 year-old deacon companion and I said, "Today will be the last time you will ever be permitted to enter my home as a church member or as a home teacher. You have no authority to insult or harass me in my home."

On his exit the HT ranted on how he volunteered to be my HT so he could get to know me. It was a brash attempt to look self-righteous and holy. I saw right through him. BTW, he is CES and loathed by nearly all the members of the ward.

what is CES?

Church Educational System

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Educational_System

It also covers early morning Seminary where the teachers do not have CES degrees from BYU & aren't paid.

It's just like in General Conference. No matter what the numbers might really show, you can be rest assured that the numbers will go up every conference by some reasonable percentage. They will count members till they are 110 years old, count people that haven't been to church in decades, not count resignations, count infants, whatever - just to show the stock always trending higher and never, ever dipping.

If we reason through I think we have enough expertise and onfidence o effectively challenge this.

I have already challenged a reporter that reported the Church membership as over 14 million.

They agreed that they should not that use that number in trust or qualify that number as self-reported.

We can crack this issue, just need to put into action out knowledge.

BYU student attendance is monitored by the student ward bishop.

My daughter had one that allowed one or two misses per semester, and if you had more he would pull her endorsement. Which means she would be kicked out of school. He was such a freak that he would not count attendance at any other ward, INCLUDING HER HOME WARD.

So, she was forced to stay at BYU over a holiday in order to keep her endorsement, rather than come home for the 4 day weekend and attend church here.

His Nazi-like attitude worked wonders in helping the kids see the church for what it really is...I probably should thank him

It appears to me thata attendance at SM in the ward I am forced to attend is dropping. I will bet the bish is in trouble.

So, as long as you attend more than one ward per Sunday, shouldn't ward hopping be encouraged? Used to be that jumping around (code for looking for hot chicks) from ward to ward each Sunday was frowned upon.