Hi, this is my fist post here. I'm a 45 years multigenerational bic that used to be a hardcore tbm apologist.

Well, today I discovered and learned something new I didn't previously realize.

I was perusing some comments about zimmerman trial and notice a commment that mentioned

"An evil (albeit wise) man said, it is “better for one man to die for the people than that the whole nation perish.” The Man Who was to die in that case was better than Zimmerman, so the fact that he’s innocent of the crime he’s been charged with is immaterial. It’s a matter of pragmatism."

I thought he must be mormon but he got the story wrong. It was the Holy Spirit saying this to Nephi about Laban. The Holy SPirit isn't evil and Laban wasn't better than Zimmerman. So I had to find what he was refferencing. It turns out he was refferring to John 11:50 where Caiphas said this about Jesus Christ (Yeshua).

So I did the comparison with LDS scriptures of 1Nephi4:13 and John 11:50. Nearly identical and six hundred years apart on separate continents one in refference to a bad man sayin about a good man and the other with Holy Spirit saying about a bad man.

Get this, you know how the LDS scriptures are cross refferenced with similar words, precepts and thoughts. There is no cross reference with these two which should be a no brainer cross reference. But 1Nephi4: 13 is cross referenced to Alma 30:47 with a similar thought.

Damn those lying cheating bastards. I never learned this episode in the new testament in all my years at church, seminary, institute and teaching gospel doctrine. No mention in any church manual or publication. Why? We know why!

I know I can't take credit for this find. I'm sure many of you have already found this. I just found it on my own and was so excited about finding it myself I wanted to share.

Do any of you have such nuggets to share with us? It would be nice if we could do compilation of all such nuggets of truth.

God Bless

Thanks for sharing. No, I've never heard talk of that even on this board and it is VERY interesting.

My most recent 'funny' find was that the Books of Abraham and Moses give different accounts and different, contradictory sequences for creation. Especially related to finding a helpmeet for Adam and creating Eve.

AND that that the temple ceremony doesn't match the LDS scriptural accounts. Seems God can't keep his story straight.

Brethren, adieu.

Hence, my moniker.

Thats a new one. I wish there was somewhere to place this data online for all to see as these little BOM gotcha's come up.

I remember a while back where a woman on this board who had studied Egyptian noticed something about the way Egyptians dress that proved the LDS Apologists wrong. None of the experts critical of the BOA had noticed that before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2013 03:43PM by AmIDarkNow?.

That's really interesting, esp since the usual apologetic response to plagiarisms of the bible in the Book of Mormon is usually along the lines of "God gives the same words to all his prophets." This line of reasoning doesn't really work in this case because its a bad man talking about killing Jesus!
Another thing I used to wonder is, what nation was Nephi talking about? The nephites and lamanites did not exist at that point in time, and the jews always had the bible in one form or another. Even with the Bible, they still perished as a nation until the U.N. did something about it in 1947. The Nephites perished, as well, with the gold plates. Or were they brass? I could never keep that straight. And neither could Joseph Smith.

The one weird thing in the BofM I found out was the whole Mosiah 1 and 2 thing, as it relates to the translation of the Jaredite story. In the Book of Omni, Mosiah, father of Benjamin, translates the story of the Jaredites from a stone. In the Book of Mosiah, Mosiah, son of Benjamin, translates the story of the Jaredites from 24 gold plates. Only the second time around, the people act like they've never heard the story before and think its a wonderful miracle that Mosiah(son of Benjamin) was able to translate the plates to bring forth this great tale of yore!
Its almost like someone was making up this story as they went along, and just forgot what they wrote 7 chapters before.

Yes, I think that is what happened, although Mosiah's story was written first. The story in Omni was part of the replacement for the lost 116 pages that they wrote at the end of the project.

They (Sidney and friends) also couldn't keep the Jaredite interpreters straight either. They were supposedly sealed up with the Jaredite record, But when Limhi's people found them there were no interpreters and they had to take them to Mosiah, who had the interpreters already (first time it gets mentioned in the story - and Mosiah had not needed the interpreters to translate the carvings earlier in Omni).

This is really, really interesting. Let's see - wasn't it the 1981 edition of the scriptures that had the first major cross reference system for all four canons?

I have to wonder what folks like Bruce R. McConkie were thinking when they were trying to figure out what to do. This certainly wasn't a 'miss'. The church spent millions in r&d on the new scriptures. This is smoking gun type stuff. It would be interesting to know if there are more instances of this type of deception.

Then again, Mark E. Peterson said the Bible is so full of errors you can 'hardly believe a word of it'. So perhaps this is evidence of a tactical move by the church to cross reference to more pure scripture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2013 04:30PM by tamboruco.

Hey Sober-Thinker,

What's your story? It sounds like you could have an interesting one. Please share. :D

-FaithNoMore

Nice screen name! I used to listen to 'Faith No More' in high school. Great rock band!

For further grins there is always D&C 110 where Joseph is having all sorts of visions of prophets.

It's a short read and I forget the verse, but he has a vision of Elias. No sooner had that vision faded when the prophet Elijah appeared on the scene.

Wow, huh?

Except that in the KJV, Elias and Elijah are the same person.

Most other translations don't mention Elias in the N.T. instead using the Hebrew name Elijah instead.

Also, if you read about Elijah in the O.T. and read what the N.T says about Elias, you will see they are talking about the same person.

Poor ol' Joe knew his Bible just enough to get himself into trouble.

I cover the "Elijah/Elias" problem in my article "Linguistic Problems in Mormonism" at http://packham.n4m.org/linguist.htm

I can recommend a very recent book by Earl Wunderli that is a collection of hundreds of such anomalies: "An Imperfect Book: What the Book of Mormon Tells Us About Itself" - published by Signature Books.

Good catch!
I've noticed on more than one occasion that if they don't want you to make the connection you can search through the online version of the scriptures and the connection either will not come up or it will be buried at the very end of the search. You are right. They don't want you to find it.

This goes into my book marks for sure. I've never heard this one in 50 years of being mormon. Those slimy little bastards. Another one they slipped by on.

I've been here a while now and I hadn't heard that either. Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

To me the smoking gun were the similarities of place names in the Book of Mormon to places in Pennsylvania and New York that JS knew well. Kishkumen vs. Kishkiminetas River to me is an absolute dead giveaway. In fiction novels, it's common to change real place names just enough to not instantly recognize them, so who was JS's ghost writer?

http://circlesquared171.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-secret-of-nihm.html

Sober-Thinker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I know I can't take credit for this find. I'm
> sure many of you have already found this. I just
> found it on my own and was so excited about
> finding it myself I wanted to share.

I mention it in my article on the Brass Plates: http://packham.n4m.org/brassplates.htm

Topping

Good find. Nice to see BOM plagiarisms, especially quotes from bad guys in the bible that are attributed to good guys in the BoM.