I have a cousin who is looking to enter an MFA program in performing arts. Because of our family situation, I am something of a parent figure to her in some respects (not financially or anything, but guidance). She has gotten into two MFA programs that are very professional and well-regarded but she would have to take out loans for basically everything. She is asking me for advice and I personally have no idea.

Have you had any experience with MFA arts programs? Would you recommend them, or is it a bad idea due to the loans? Is this an opportunity that shouldn't be missed, or should she avoid it?

What is her end game? Is she looking to teach? At the college level? the Secondary School level? Or does she just want to go to school to collect degrees.

I have of all things a BFA in Art (Photography). It was fun to get and the knowledge it has aquired has brought me a lot of joy and happiness. On the other hand, I have always worked outside that field. I have always had satisfactory employment but based more on my military experience than educational.

I think if teaching is her goal and she has the means to pay it back then that would probably be reasonable, but if she is just going to school with no goal beyond an MFA it might not be a wise investment. She could endu deep in debt with not much to show for it.

I knew one guy who had completed an MFA Sculpture program and incurred a debt of over $1000000 and worked as a cross country truck driver to pay for it.

I'm guessing that this is an Acting program?

Why would anyone go tens of thousands of dollars into debt to become a waitress?

Thank you for summing that up....

One of the guys in my college dorm was an Art major who then went on to get his MFA. He goal was to be a museum curator/director and he was incredibly focused. Last I heard he was the director of a museum somewhere in New England. (We graduated in 1987)

I think an MFA in performing arts is probably a waste of money unless her goal is to be an academic and get into teaching. And even then, the job demand is likely to be small.

It's obvious from looking at Hollywood that talent and education are not criteria to succeed in the movie & TV industry.

I protest.

TV is soooo much better than it was 30 years ago. The writing, the soundtracks, the acting, the production values.

I pulled up some of the shows I thought were classics on Netflix, and well some of them seem only okay now. Don't get me wrong I love "Rockford Files", but most of the guest actors and scripts are mediocre. If it weren't for Garner you'd have pffft.

Yeah, you can point to a handful of lower level talent making it, but usually they exploited an under served niche. For example "The Wiggles" and Disney sit coms aimed at 11 - 14 years old's.


And even then, sometimes today's mediocre actor acquires some skills. Take a look at some of Harrison Ford's early roles . . . well . . . let's just say he got better.

Add: Maybe you were talking about "Reality TV"? In that case, you are right, I totally agree.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2013 12:48AM by crom.

I should clarify that she has told me she is interested in directing, dramaturgy, and playwriting, not just becoming an actor. I should have made that more clear. I don't know if that changes anything...I just recently found out what dramaturgy even is, so I'm obviously not well equipped, but I do want to help her somehow.

Then maybe she needs to find away to start playwriting,directing etc..I don't think an MFA is the way to enter that field. Short workshops and maybe hooking up with people who are actually doing that may be the way to go. Maybe she should look at an internship? It seems that all the famous acting,directing types seem to be involved in acting groups,workshops and such, not so much in the Ivy Halls...

I think an MFA would probably not matter. Like someone else said, Hollywood (or Broadway for that matter) isn't exactly teeming with MFAs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2013 07:29PM by whiskeytango.

anonregposter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I should clarify that she has told me she is
> interested in directing, dramaturgy, and
> playwriting, not just becoming an actor. I should
> have made that more clear. I don't know if that
> changes anything...I just recently found out what
> dramaturgy even is, so I'm obviously not well
> equipped, but I do want to help her somehow.

In the real world, an MFA is worthless for directing, dramaturgy, and playwriting (except for the "long way around" which is: get an MFA, then use THAT to get a job as a janitor, cafeteria worker, or secretarial assistant in a place which has some REAL connection to theatre (if this is her goal): a production company, etc.

If she wants to direct/produce/act, then she needs to pick the place where she is most likely to "connect" to ANYONE who can be a connection to where she wants to be. Broadway for theatre; "Hollywood" for films. Then you start out at the production companies, the theatres, and the studios, and you apply for ANYTHING that can get you "in." (This includes being a temp in ANY capacity, for ANY relevant employer.) This is going to be the first credit on your resume, so you put your heart and soul in it 24/7/365 (not only because the people you work for, or with, are going to hopefully be giving you recommendations, but also because those people are likely to be "with" you, in one way or another, for the rest of your career).

You start making connections: the people will at least be willing to read the first few pages of your playscript, etc. You realize that you are "auditioning" EVERY SINGLE MOMENT YOU ARE IN PUBLIC OR AT WORK, and you conduct yourself accordingly. You treat EVERYONE well: the saying in "Hollywood" is: "Be nice to the broom closet lady; she may be running the studio next week." This sentiment is true across the spectrum of what your friend is interested in.

You volunteer for ANY job that needs doing, especially if there is a real need.

You ask questions (assuming that the person you ask is not under some kind of stress at that moment).

You become the "go to" person for WHATEVER is going on.

And you grab the first available "peon" job that gets you ANY CREDIT AT ALL on anything official (like the play program).

That first REAL credit is the one which begins your career.

Whether on Broadway or in "Hollywood," what you're really dealing with is a VERY "small town." "Everyone" knows EVERYONE. At any point, you are probably TWO degrees from "anyone" else (including Kevin Bacon), and often only one. This is as true for the janitor as it is for the assistant producer. Do not mess up!

Always be polite. Always be interested (and there are a lot of very boring people she is going to need to be "interested" when she is with them). Always be ready to take ANY opening, no matter how tiny it might be, to expand your connections, your credits, and your knowledge and experience.

And, oh yeah, find out what the most regarded classes for scriptwriting/playwriting, directing, etc. are and take them. There are lots of phonies out there, so ask around. Check out Christopher Vogler, Robert McKee, and John Truby. (They have all written books, and this is where you begin. Check out Christopher Vogler's website, in particular, especially because he incorporates, in his later works, a wide variety of approaches that are all used in the industry.)

Harrison Ford began as a carpenter, working as a carpenter in the homes of Hollywood notables (as well as many just ordinary people). People have begun as secretaries/personal assistants...purchasing clerks at studios..chauffeurs...janitors...food service workers.

What your friend does NOT need is an MFA degree from anything less than a major university which is already well known as a RECOGNIZED feeder school into either Broadway or "Hollywood," and even in this instance, it isn't the degree or the education which counts, it is the CONNECTIONS to people who are in a position to hire or to professionally recommend.

Hope this helps.

My husband acts. He also has a day job that pays the bills. He took college theater courses but put the majority of his time and money into his day job training.

Directors usually have to do a lot of acting. Everyone wants to direct.

And if she's paid any attention to the news, then she knows that there are MANY young people whose lives are ruined by student loan debt. One late payment is enough to ruin your chances of renting an apartment, getting a decent job, etc. Not to mention that some people are very leery of marrying someone with significant debt.

MFA programs earn a lot of money for the schools that provide them. In most fields, but especially in literature and drama, they are useless unless you want to teach - and then they're essential.

Thank you so much! I will actually just copy and paste this and email it to her, haha. Great help.

Also, she is focused on theatre, not films/TV.

As you know, there are certain schools in the theater/film world that can open a lot of doors (USC, UCLA, NYU, Carnegie Mellon, etc.)

Apart from that, I would very much encourage her to take a TA, GA, or RA position, all of which would save her a great deal of money on tuition.

My cousin has a MFA in film making and is now back in school to be a chiropractor.

I think the point about either planning to use the degree to teach or make connections (and only a few programs are useful for that) has been made. It's often not a good investment but that depends on how much you invest. If you can get a job at a university - even as low level support staff - often the cost of any classes is greatly reduced or free. If your cousin is serious I might recommend becoming a department secretary or admin assistant (or as noted above, an RA) at the school to cut costs. That way there should be much less - and hopefully not any - debt.

I think the college confidential website, though mainly focused in BFA programs, may have some good info on programs, costs, and connections.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2013 08:14PM by vh65.

It's not worth it unless she can get a fellowship that would cover the cost of tuition. If she has to take out student loans to pay for it, then it's not a good idea. An MFA doesn't help anyone get a job. She'd be better off getting a degree in something more marketable, like IT and then just doing the acting stuff on the side. Wish someone had told me this.

I got an MA in English because I wanted to be a writer but it's been really difficult to find a good job. I teach college writing courses but can't get a full-time position doing that and teaching as an adjunct doesn't pay well at all, I have no benefits and I work on semester to semester contracts so I never know how much money I will be making. Some semesters are really good (but I have to teach like 7-8 classes at 3 different schools, which is a huge load, jut to make decent money) And then there are times, like right now this summer, when I have zero classes and zero income. I'm fortunate because I had a scholarship that paid for most of my graduate degree so I only had one small student loan (less than 4k) but I know lots of people in the same boat as me and they have 100k plus in student loans which they are trying to pay off while making less than 35K a year. It's a really tough market for anyone who got a degree in the humanities. I guess they say "starving artist" for a reason.

Anonrightnow is so right.

Back when I used to hang around with a lot of people in the once-slummy, now-hip-and-happening part of San Francisco called the Mission District, I actually met a number of MFA or almost-MFA young women who were working as actresses in fetish porn or as dominatrixes, and/or temp jobs in the straight world, and trying to make ends meet. They were smart as heck and a lot of fun in a tattooed, pierced, bad-girl way, but it didn't seem like an MFA degree had been a big boost into the arts profession.

There's a short Youtube video to see called "The Ivy League Hustle" (aka "I Went To Princeton, B****!")made by a funny lady who earned a Harvard MFA in drama and then came out west to try to break into Hollywood. Maybe Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhf9qwiA34

From what I have heard, the glut of reality programming has really cut into the market for writers, directors, actors, etc.--i.e. the creative people.

What reality programming has done is increase work for the people who edit the massive amount of banal bilge generated in the filming process in an effort to put something together that people will watch.

I live in hope that the public will get disgusted with the crap that is broadcast and revolt! Fat chance, probably.