Continued from a comment on another thread...do you think that romantic love is a fantasy or a man-made feeling?

without having read the other thread, no, I don't think it's a delusion at all. I do think, however, it's something that the Mormon church's very existence is capable of squashing like a helpless insect with it's exclusivity and strict, archaic black and white beliefs.

I have to say for me, yes it has been. I decided several years ago that there was one major common denominator in my failed marriage, and a couple of failed romances after, and that was ME! I decided I was really VERY bad at the whole intimate relationship thing, and was better off single. So I have remained so.

But for others I see it work and am very happy for them. I do think that romantic love is an important ingredient in a marriage/relationship and must be worked at constantly by both parties.

While I have done a lot of work in that area in a relationship, I have yet to meet a man (in my agegroup - I do think men have changed dramatically over the last couple of generations) who was willing to put in the same amount of effort. Do I pick the wrong ones, don't they exist? I don't know, and now after years of being single, it doesn't matter to me at all!

Same here, fluhist!

Ana

Yep. I could have posted this exact post.

Only I don't think romantic love is a delusion; I think it's more like a unicorn. You have to believe it exists to find one, and even then, you might not ever find one.

I think more people are miserable in their relationships than they care to admit. Fear of living independently often outweighs the misery of a bad or unhealthy relationship. You know? Some people would rather suffer in a lousy partnership than be alone.

Me, I'd rather be alone than be shackled to someone I don't like all that much. I, too, haven't really met any men who seem to want to do the relationship work either, but I think that's a function of my emotional damage. Because there are unicorns, erm, happily married men who do the work. They just don't date me. Because they're already in healthy, happy partnerships. So I'm left with the men who are as broken as I am. And I'm not going to settle for that, so... Flying solo it is.

I don't think it's an illusion, but I wish I better understood the chemical processes that are at work in my brain and body when it happens.

In my case (and I am a male) it has not always been associated with hotness. My longest relationship (even longer than my marriage) was with an intelligent, insightful, spiritual person that really enriched my existence.

I wonder what the relationship of romantic love (and the chemical processes that take place) is to hatred and revenge. I think they are both initiated in the limbic system and fade for one reason or another. But, I'm an idiot.

I've seen some Discovery channel programs on the science of love, or something like that. Anyway, I may have mis-understood the intent of the post. If the question is "is romantic love an illusion" and it is taken to mean that "true love" is just a fictional thing, then I would have to disagree, I believe it does exist.

If it is a more scientific question, I'd say there is no distinction in the chemicals released into our brains from one kind of love to another, probably just the amount or duration or repitition of the release of those chemicals.

I believe we meet and bond with our companion soul mates every so often, but not always. That bond is of course physical and involves chemistry within our bodies, but it involves a merging or bonding of our souls in the physical universe. This will feel and seem and in fact be different from any other previously felt attachment to any other person. This is because it has existed much longer than our duration in this one lifetime. IMO.

No, romantic love is not a delusion.
It is a wonderful beginning in which the partner is idealized. From there, a relationship can progress to marriage and, hopefully, a long and rich life shared together.

On average, the romantic phase lasts about two years.

In shaky relationships it can last a lot longer for the partner who loves more - excruciatingly painful because there never is a resolution phase.

Unfortunately, the partner who loves more is at a disadvantage from the beginning and comes across as clingy and needy - and usually winds up getting dumped.
At that point love can turn into addiction, especially when there is a painful family history of unmet needs that began in early childhood.

Very discerning. That is almost exactly what I have deduced in all my years.

Glo, I'm very on-board with your remarks. My only departure is saying, "on average, two years..." I would say this is very, very individual and varies greatly.

There are people who go overboard on the romantic relationship and have difficulty adjusting to the less intense, and occasionally difficult, periods in a permanent relationship. Such people may be love addicts, who paradoxically are usually involved with love avoidants. It's counter-intuitive, certainly, but there is more merit to this scenario than you would first think.

If a person (most often, female) has a tendency to get overly involved in unworkable relationships, then Pia Meloddy's "Facing Love Addiction" may be very helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Love-Addiction-Giving-Yourself/dp/0062506048/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375157254&sr=1-1&keywords=facing+love+addiction

There are other good titles and programs, but I'd start with this one. I found it quite insightful.

No, I don't believe that it in itself is a delusion, but we often delude ourselves when we forget that courtship should last well beyond the first 5 or 30 years of marriage.

What IS a delusion is the common Mormon thought (thanks Spencer Kimball) is that any two people who are living the gospel can be put together and make a successful marriage. This might work in animal husbandry, but it isn't the right way for human beings who thrive on emotional fulfillment and matching chemistry. It merely reduces the marriage relationship to that of co-workers. Come to think of it, the wording used in the Sealing ceremony is completely devoid of any mention of love and sounds more like it was written by Heber C. Kimball who once stated that he thought no more of taking another wife than he did of buying a cow.

No way, it's not a delusion. Jesus taught Love over and over again in the Bible. It's scary to see so many people that seem like emotional "dead cells".

Jesus taught about having love for your fellow human beings by caring and serving them, but really not much about romantic love, the topic of this thread, so I'd have to disagree with you there.

No. It's real. But it's not enough.

You've got to also have a real friendship and intellectual connection to sustain a relationship when the initial infatuation simmers down.

I think that romance, and sometimes lasting love, can be a byproduct of that primary drive.

The chemicals that the body produces during the early stage of attraction are eventually replaced by ones that induce the couple to settle in for the long term job of raising the brood.

For gays, there is a different configuration of chemicals that brings on attraction. The pre-birth androgen wash over the fetus, which is different for each of us, is responsible for our hetero or homo attractions.

It certainly feels like a delusion when it doesn't go both ways. I'm experiencing that right now. It stinks. You sort of start wishing that it really was a delusion so you could tell yourself that you're merely deluded and have happier thoughts.

Date: 07/28/2013 12:33PM

The more you give the more you love. The less you give the less you love.

If you want someone to love you, let them do things for you and vice versa. If you see someone never does anything for you, never has your interests at heart, they do not love you. It isn't just their personality. We just can't help doing things for those that we are attracted to, even though sometimes the things we do aren't what our beloved would have wished for, at least we did them.

Maybe this is important to understand once the initial fascination of romantic love begins to take its sabbaticals. I say sabbaticals rather than fade, because even though romance can't be sustained 24/7, it does not disappear, it lurks. That is why even those who have had a nasty breakup with dishes thrown and ugly threats screamed, often feel a spark when they run into each other years later.

If you had romantic love, you can always blow on the embers and ignite the feelings all over again. This is why its important to kick the kids out of the house when they are done with school and never babysit the grandkids except on rare occasions. And this is why it is not okay to get in touch with old flames.

At the end, it is the companionship that is the best, but if there is still a spark? Well that's gold.

That's this old man's two cents.

No, it is not a delusion. I know couples who have had great marriages with plenty of romantic love until they grew old and one passed on -- but the love remained.

I think what IS an illusion is the idea that it doesn't take constant work, compromise, growth and change, and willingness to see things from the other party's point of view. A lot of people aren't willing to sustain that level of work once the sexual fire dies down a bit. Others fall apart because one partner changes and the other can't handle it.

Romantic love should not be a commitment to never change or grow. Anyone who wants to keep their partner "just the way they are" is headed for disappointment.

Another illusion is that "any two people" can make it work for the long haul. Many of the LDS marriages I know involve people who were really horny and wanted to have Church-approved sex, and a lot of them turned out to be miserably incompatible, with completely different personalities. Others stay together only because their common goal is to appear perfect to those around them.

I do think TSCC breeds bad marriages. Couples are taught that the solution to any marital problem is to pray, pay, and obey. It doesn't work that way.

No, but people can delude themselves that making a relationship work does not require work, pain and effort.

Romantic love is real. It can go very, very bad.

Some people think "love" means control and ownership of the other person. He or she is there to satisfy all the needs of the partner and it's his/her fault if the partner isn't happy. That's not love, but our society feeds the notion that it is.

The chemical reactions involved in falling in love can definitely blind you to reasons why you might actually be incompatible.

Hopefully after a few break ups the brain can learn how to balance feeling and reason in the early stages of a relationship.

Too bad it's far too late for so many TBM's once they've finally realized this.

The morg discourages relationships until early adulthood, then immediately switches to pushing for quick marriages. Combine that with blind faith in fairy tales, and you have a deadly combination.

ROMANTIC love is a chemical response (as Carol said). But I do think that deep affection and affinity that is love exists.

It's the getting back up after the hormone high wears off that can require a lot of work.

When two humans drunk on hormones come together, often times all they can see is the idealized projection of their dream god or goddess finally arriving make them happy. Then after the propagation of the species has been accomplished, the projected image gradually morphs into a scary monster encompassing most of the negative aspects of the observer's character mirroring backatcha. After the physical purpose of relationships happens, then the spiritual purpose takes over and the real work begins.

Curiously, some couples seem to keep a spark alive for decades. My youngest sibling (TBM) and his sweetie seem to adore each other, even after their kids are recently grown and out of the house. My own relationships were mega disasters.

My ex-SIL (TBM) is hunting for husband #6.

I think romantic love may be delusional if it fades quickly, but real if it endures the test of time. Totally depends on the participants how it will turn out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2013 01:44AM by beyondashadow.

yes

I havent read the previous thread,But in reality, No I dont. To be completely honest though I am an old bitter divorse. So Im not objective. I really do wish there was such a thing...Reading some of the mens posts about how much they love their wives, gives me hope that maybe its real. But my exsperiance has been Its as common as big foot & nessy, people say they see em, but I havnt.:/

I believe romantic love is an illusion.

I want to love my soul mate as romantically as possible.

It isn't real.

It's the most real thing.

Shades of grey, they suck.

We: Understanding the Psychology of Romantic Love

http://www.amazon.com/We-Understanding-Psychology-Romantic-Love/dp/0062504363/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375197285&sr=1-3

My significant other and I have been together for 7+ years. We're still in the so-called "honeymoon" phase (which I think doesn't exist) and our love grows more every day.

That fairy tale romance is possible. It's happening to us. Also, it's worth mentioning that neither of us ever planned on being in a committed relationship. We both thought we'd be single for life and weren't out looking for love.

When we met we became friends, and that friendship became love.

We don't make promises to each other. We don't plan on having a marriage ceremony.

We're just two people who happen to be walking down the same path and so we decided we might as well hold hands. If she wanted to go left and I wanted to go right, we'd give each other a kiss goodbye and go our separate ways.

As it is, neither of us has found a reason to walk away and it doesn't seem likely that we ever will.

Having said that, it's easy for me to see that most relationships are bullshit. My parents' relationship was bullshit. So were my S.O.'s parents' relationship. Maybe that's why we had the patience to let it happen on its own, or not happen at all..

It is the net effect of every thought, feeling and behavior choice each of you has ever made, and not only in this current lifetime. You two sound like the proverbial two trees growing next to each other but not intertwining and suffocating each other.

People think there is something wrong with their relationships when they don't run smoothly and sweetly as does yours. There is never anything "wrong" with any relationship. If it's bumpy, it's due to YOUR rough edges, not your partner's. Relationships are the true Refiner's Fire. If there is anything unvirtuous, unlovely or not of good report about YOU, you can be sure whatever it is will eventually catch fire and burn you to get your attention.

It's all Perfect. People just don't see how their lives are so unbelievably perfect for each one of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2013 12:03PM by beyondashadow.

I think people experience romantic love, but that it's not enough for a long term relationship. You need more than that.

Romantic love waxes and wanes and when it burns out, if that's all you had, it's an ugly experience.

It can be rekindled in a long term relationship but will burn out again. And that's OK, just expect it to come and go.

coming out of lurking again.

Yes. I know it's real and possible. I survived the illusion and I experience the real thing every day with my current spouse. We've been together 8+ years and like another poster we never left the so called honeymoon phase. We've enhanced our bonding in ways even most never-mo's turn their nose up to. It works for us and may not work for everyone else. We share hobbies but also have our own and we support each in both. We communicate about everything. Most importantly we love and accept each other for who and what we are at any given moment with no expectations or exceptions. That's not to say that we don't have habits that drive the other one a little batty but those are the habits that make me love my spouse all the more, because without them they wouldn't be who they are not to mention rather dull. Before this relationship I never would have believed it possible. Now...now I understand why people say real love never dies.

I don't think romantic love is a delusion. I think its infatuation, not love. It gives you the same fuzzy feeling that the church gives you when you "feel the spirit." It's not a delusion, just an emotional reaction to something that makes you feel good.