One of best friends is a TBM, & we have a relationship where we can be open about one another's beliefs, & we respect each other no matter what. It breaks my heart sometimes, though, that he seems so deep in the church.

The other day, he was telling me stories from his mission, & one of them was about the crazy things of which the people would accuse Mormonism. Like polygamy, how Mormons have horns, blah, blah, blah... all the usual stuff. But then he said this in between laughs, "There was this one guy who even said we make promises in the temple where we would have to slit our throats if we talk about what happens in the temple. Isn't that crazy??"

I'm sure my jaw dropped. I didn't know how to reply. I just simply replied by saying, "Yeah, that's pretty crazy." But my mind was racing at a thousand miles per hour, trying to decide whether I should tell him that the man's claim was actually correct. He seemed to believe that this man on his mission was absolutely absurd & wrong in his claim.

It just made me remember how cleverly & masterfully the church is able to brainwash & blind. It's disgusting.

I'm still conflicted with this experience & with what my friend said. I want so badly for him to see the church for what it really is, but I don't know how to go about it. Should I mention the temple rituals that were practiced years ago, like the blood oaths, etc? What's the best way to bring it up? Are there resources other than what Mormons would label "anti"? Or do I tell him at all?

Thank you for reading! You all are awesome!

Lucy

If they don't do it now, they never did it.

Down the memory hole, eh Winston?

But if there's proof, surely it would spark something, no? I mean, maybe he won't accept right there, but he's sensible, it might get him thinking?

An older member you both respect could confirm that, like a parent or uncle?

But would they?

No, my mom flat out lied without breaking eye contact.

And it's not like lds.org is gonna have anything, you know, because they're so 'honest' with their members.

So did Holland to the BBC on camera, he eventually corrected and tried to clarify why he lied.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2013 06:05AM by gentlestrength.

I think it's best to be totally honest when confronting these types of things. Not that you should be confrontational or anything but I would set him straight. With that being said, he'll very quickly rationalize it and continue on his merry TBM way. But at least you will have planted a seed of doubt. It will be just a little bit harder for him to shelf the next piece of truth he uncovers about the church..and the next....and the next....

If I was thinking on my feet I'd say:

"He thinks they really used to pretend to cut their own throats about revealing what happens in the temple? Wow. So he also saying the temple ceremony has changed?

What's the point then of making temple covenants, if they can change?

That's like saying that in the temple members promise something totally crazy, like to avenge Joseph Smith's martyrdom.

I know the temple can seem pretty weird to outsiders, but I only felt weird about it on a few occasions."

Yep, what I'd hope to say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2013 02:23AM by lastofthewine.

Tell him you asked an older member about it (there are a number on this board), and they actually confirmed it happened. Act shocked. ask what else the crazy anti-Mormon said. see if you can get him researching.

Thats the problem w/blood oaths. NOBODY talks about em...I think there was an article in the deseret news about the temple changes in 1991.(seems like june or july). You might try the easier things to prove like polygamy.Id just sit them down (some place private) & gentelly tell them that stuff did happen pre1990.Tell em w/compassion. No one likes to be wrong. But like spinach in their teeth..No one wants to be embarrassed. AND Its better a friend tell em.

Show him Holland's BBC interview. He confirms there were penalties.

My StakePresident told there was no such thing.

What a surprise when I watched it being admitted on PBS, which you can watch on their website. Just look up The Mormons.

http://video.pbs.org/video/1460862784

Look at 1:31:00 onward and watch Marlin Jensen admit it. To me, Jensen admits that the most evil antimormon lie of all time was in fact, true.

People aren't born knowing this stuff. Somebody has to tell them, and it obviously isn't going to be LDS Inc, except when they get pushed into it by an interviewer on TV.

Tell him pantomimed death penalties were in the endowment until 1991, when they were removed, along with the 5 points of fellowship and Pay Lay Ale.

He can then look for confirming evidence on his own. If his sources lie to him, you can show him legitimate sources, showing the penalties were there, AND that Mormons will lie to cover it up. A twofer.

Yea, there are plenty of us older people around who definitely remember the death mimes.

I didn't hear about the blood oaths and penalties until I watched "The Mormons". I was even a temple worker at the time. It really freaked me out when I heard it. I asked my TBM mom about it and she confirmed. It was another weight on the shelf that finally came crashing down in January.