The term "gaslighting" comes from the 1938 stage play "Gas Light" (aka Angel Street in the USA).

Mormon apologists and Mormon leaders often claim that ex-Mormons have faulty memories of what was actually taught. They also claim that we just misinterpreted what we heard, or got the wrong idea altogether. It can take up a lot of our time organizing what we heard, and trying to convince others that we actually heard it. Apologists use the frayed argument, "He was just speaking as a man" when a leader gets caught contradicting canon.

This is actually a form of mental abuse.

From Wikipedia: "Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim."

Let me put it this way. You are NOT crazy. You remember exactly what you heard. You did NOT misunderstand or misinterpret it. You remember it just the way it happened.

Trust yourself. You are correct when you realize that Mormons are now lying to you about what you heard in church. They are the crazy ones. It's not you. You are the sane one. You might be the only sane person in the room. But you are sane.

T-Bone

I highly recommend the book The Gaslight Effect by Robin Stern.

The beauty of the information / video age is that the MORmON liars are caught and recorded in the act of their lies, and the recording stands as a record against them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKR_nCG-4zA

lucky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The beauty of the information / video age is that
> the MORmON liars are caught and recorded in the
> act of their lies, and the recording stands as a
> record against them.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKR_nCG-4zA

Yup. What he's saying is documented to be false.

I don't think TSCC could be honest even by mistake.

They'd tell a lie if the truth sounded better.

Yes, the video age is fantastic, as are cell phones, and other recording devices [think Anthony Wiener, here folks].

Another great thing is the Mormon church's penchant for documenting every damn thing -- as well as their recommendation that all LDS members maintain a journal.

I love the damning evidence in the Journal of Discourses that shows the full range of belligerent domination and racism of Brigham Young. He also had newspaper interviews with the press that are preserved to this day.

The journal of polygamist wife No. 19, Eliza Young is particularly revealing and can be downloaded in a free e-book.

The Mormon Church can gaslight all they want, but the evidence of their deception is in black and white for us to see.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2013 04:43PM by Senoritalamanita.

Lucky- you are exactly right.

Truth via videocam is choking the lies out of Mormonism.

And it's all lies, so it's dying.


Ana

I'm pasting your post on my refrigerator. I still doubt my perceptions about individual Mormons, to this day (Did the bishop really barge into my house, throw my son on the floor and kick him, and force him to church? Look how respectable, popular, and family-oriented he appears.)

About 15 years ago, I mentioned the story of the War In Heaven to some friends in my Utah ward. I remember being taught that the Good souls joined with Christ, to be born on Earth. The Evil souls followed Satan to Hell, and the neutral souls "sitting on the fence" were to be born on Earth, but with black skin, as descendants of Cain. Well, the TBM's looked at me as though I was crazy. I asked my Mormon friends from my old home ward if they were taught that story, and they thought I was crazy, too. Finally, I asked my brother and sister, and they both remembered being taught that, too; in fact, my brother still believed this!

I was gas-lighted about the urine-thumb, a few weeks ago. There was just one stone, a "seer stone". What golden plates? Doo-de-doo-doo.

LOL--"the staging of bizarre events" made me think of the temple.

That's so stupid that people treated you like you were crazy! There's actually a Mormon sci-fi novel written about the war in heaven and I have met a few people with it in the last year!

It's pathetic how little some of them are educated in their own doctrine.

Thanks T-Bone! Its always good to have a sounding board. I know what you mean about the war in heaven I was taught that too. Appearently theyre are still changing their unpopular or less than "christian" teachings. When the movie,DaVinci Code" Came out I mentioned to my TBM DD that even the church taught that christ was married, my kids looked at me like I was psychic! I found myself defending myself to TBMs!! It all reminds me of the code of abusers:"Oh, she's Crazy!"

There is some serious selective memory/ gaslighting concerning some of the wackier Parts of the temple ceremony now removed. Romney is now gaslighting his 47% comment, be learned from the best

I was taught this in LDS seminary in the 80s, you're not crazy. I also read this in a book written by Joseph Fielding Smith. The LDS think you're making it up, because they've never heard it. Just because they've never heard it doesn't mean it wasn't taught.

Isn't gaslighting the favorite lighting of narcissists?

by the end of my marriage I was
A. going to commit suicide
B. going to murder him (1st choice)
C. get a divorce, and still have to deal with him

with my last shred of sanity, I chose the divorce. Mostly because I didn't want to go to jail and leave my children with one parent dead and the other in jail.

less than 2 months after leaving him, I realized that the Church was the same guy as my ex.

imagine how crazy Mormons are, especially after a couple of generation of living in a narcissistically driven organization.

That was also true for me, and in the end, I had just enough sanity to realize that divorce was the best option, as my ex wasn't worth going to jail for.

After nearly two decades in an abusive marriage (my narcissistic husband's girlfriend was actually living with us - how weird is THAT??? - And they both insisted that they were "just friends.") I was so deeply sunk into depression and confusion that I have no idea how I managed to stay employed.

My short-term memory was totally shot and I had a terrible time learning things, especially at work.

One thing I'll never forget, though, was when my then-husband asked me whether I had brought home the dry-cleaning from the laundry. I had no idea what he was talking about. As muddled as my poor brain was, I was pretty sure I would have remembered to pick up dry cleaning - especially, since I knew I was likely to be screamed at if I didn't. But I drew a complete blank on this one.

In a sugary-sweet tone, The Girlfriend suggested, "Why don't you look in your wallet? You probably have the laundry stub there." Well, that would make sense. That's where I always put them, but I had no memory of putting one there recently.

Surprise, surprise. When I looked in my wallet, there was a laundry ticket. I felt totally defeated, like I no longer belonged on the planet. To this day, I am certain I did not place that stub there.

That's when I first learned about what would come to be known as "gaslighting." When I told my best friend about it, she exclaimed, "They are TRYING to make you feel crazy! It's just like in that old movie, 'Gaslight!' " She nailed it. And this was before I ever heard anyone use "gaslight" as a verb.

Anyone who would do such a thing - especially to someone who is already confused - is just plain EVIL.

You probably don't even have as bad of a memory as you think you do! Wo knows how many other times they might have done that!

When I was LDS I had a ex-mo coworker do this to me; he hated Mormons that bad. I honestly thought I was going crazy and I had a breakdown at work. He'd tell me that I committed to do something that I never committed to do or he would say that I said things that I never said. I'm glad I don't work there any longer. He was one of the idiots that caused me to stay LDS even longer.

+1000!

In the years of arguing that started with my speaking my truth after my dad died, she was all about how I didn't remember correctly or didn't get her or, when I wasn't having either of those two options, was just being silly. This went on for four years, until I finally gave up and stopped going there. I called it "denying my reality" and hadn't really thought of it as gaslighting, but that's exactly what it is.

I don't know where she learned it, because her mother wasn't like that--Grandma always believed me, anyway--and I don't think Grandpa was like that, either. He was more the "you're full of shit; shut up and do my bidding" type, as was my dad. There wasn't much room to argue with either of them. My mom, however, will sit there until the cows come home and tell you you're up in the night.

I don't think she picked it up at church, either, because she didn't join until after I was born and then, except for those five years when I was a teenager, was inactive until a few years ago.

Munchymomom could give the ancient doddering con men a few pointers.

out of. Probably about 12 or 13 years of age, now since everything changes around them, they must wrap or warp reality so that they don't have to change or grow up. It becomes a necessity to write over what really happened or was said and to convince themselves that everyone is wrong, forgot or didn't hear correctly, so they may continue to hold on the version of the themselves that makes them look good and gets them what they want, without looking selfish or immature.

If you were dealing with a child you would shut this lying down, but because you're now dealing with and adult, we usually don't confront them with the kind of aggressive conversation that is needed to deal with them. We usually give up in frustration, don't want to continue the argument because the narcissist will only escalate it and it will still not be resolved, sooo when they "get away" with it again and again, the choose to think of themselves as "right" and that we are giving them implied consent b/c we were ineffective in getting our boundaries set and enforced with consequences.

The offspring who suffer this abuse from a parent are not in a role or situation where they can retrain the abuser.

Sounds like this mother developed this tactic because it allowed her to remain immature and selfish which is easier than growing up.

But when I call her on denying my reality, she switches over to "you don't get me," which is always just me being bad (again). She's not like that! Which is why I finally just went, "F*** it, this is never going to end to my satisfaction," and started refusing to discuss anything that could potentially lead to an argument. That's a lot of undiscussables and a stunted relationship that's worse than we started with, but it just has to be like that.

I have skills, too, from my consulting career. I tried everything.

Your mother was an adult in full charge of you, the little newborn. Starting with that disadvantage means it's a next to an impossible race with no chance of catching up.

They don't want me back Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> out of. Probably about 12 or 13 years of age, now
> since everything changes around them, they must
> wrap or warp reality so that they don't have to
> change or grow up. It becomes a necessity to write
> over what really happened or was said and to
> convince themselves that everyone is wrong, forgot
> or didn't hear correctly, so they may continue to
> hold on the version of the themselves that makes
> them look good and gets them what they want,
> without looking selfish or immature.


I'd never considered that. Reading this response is very helpful for me. My mother, now dead, gaslighted me for years, starting probably in jr. High or high school, up until about 5 years ago. That's 40 years... Jesus.

I have had a hard time putting this issue to rest, as it had significant, harmful effects on my life and emotional and social deveopment. When a person begins todoubt their own perceptions, it throws a monkey wrench into their very being, since all we are is due to our perceptivity.

I want to remember the good parts of our relationship, and there were a lot. I've come a long way since beginning to deal with this, and this helps explain how she could so blithely do this to me for years, with my dad's help.

I think this happens a ton in the church. My bishop would say specifics things to make it appear that he was "being moved upon by the holy ghost", when in actuality he was just told things about me by my neighbors, or other people.

One Friday night I was hanging out with my friend who was also in the priest quorum at the time. We both received a text message at the same time from our bishop saying something along the lines as, "I felt the need to text you tonight. Make good decisions and respect the priesthood you hold". lol the douche just sent it to the whole priest quorum

Absolutely agree. Gossip becomes the whisperings of the spirit or inspiration. The missionaries who baptized me did it to me, but I only recognized it years later as I sat in correlation meetings and talked about the converts. When I first joined, people asked me about my life as if they were interested but their question suggested they 'knew' something.

How many do missionaries or HT/VT show up at someone's door because they were in the area or just wanted to drop by, when the truth is you were discussed in ward council.

And your example about the youth.... well, don't get me started on that.

I never thought of it as "gaslighting", but my ex used to do a similar thing to me. He would "remind" me of some church s!#@ that would be happening at our house on the morning of or just the night before the event. When I'd say whoa! I never agreed to that he would say, "Don't you remember? I told you about it weeks ago."

I would dutifully prepare the house or make food or whatever, but now I figure he was just too chicken to say no to TSCC and at the same time too chicken to tell me what he had volunteered "us"to do.

This seems pretty innocuous compared to abuse but it was one of the many dishonest things that killed my trust.

Thanks Cheryl. At the time I doubted my memory.

Ever seen GASLIGHT starring Ingrid Bergman?