Just found out that stepson's going to be sent to Bahia Blanca mission in Argentina for 24 months. Input is appreciated about how safe this mission is & also whether there's a good chance that the locals could bless him with some cog-dis? Thanks again!

My son was there for 14 months until he found out some things about the church and came home. He came home in March. He HATED his mission president (pompous Spaniard). He lost 45 pounds there - got bit by dogs several times (they run through the streets wildly) and got the chicken pox.

But he learned Spanish and became his own man. And has come home with a purpose and a plan.

Good luck to you stepson.

Thank you, Bob. Just read it to my husband; hope my stepson has that kind of courage. I have to say I'm afraid that pompous jack asses didn't seem to dampen his enthusiasm with Mormonism locally -- hope to go into it later in detail about just what a-holes run the ward in our town. More on that in another post because that's a looong story & right now I'm not in the best mood to relive that in my head :/ But his Dad & I hope that a change of country will jar him out of the spell.

Anyway, thanks much!

Oh also, if you're OK with it, can you please describe what your son found out about Mormonism that affected him enough to leave the mission? Was it something specific to that area or just the stuff about Mormonism in general -- Joe Smith & his teenage brides, Brig Young & his virulent racism, etc. If you can't that's cool, I understand, because since registering I have that wonder-who's-lurking-here feeling. I suspect my stepson has gotten his rear handed to him online before defending the LDS with ex-mo's -- my younger son alluded to that once time. So I wonder if he lurks here, too, and if he does, how he can go on wanting to go with the LDS program after finding out all this. Thanks.

Well thankfully he did not get rabies after being bitten by the wild dogs!!

Nephew was sent there. He is now visa waiting in Detroit.

thanks

ETA: Stepson texted his dad tonight asking for his demo details to apply for a passport. He leaves for the MTC in October & is supposed to leave for Argentina in December.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2013 01:06AM by myantonia.

No he didn't get rabies but we were worried several times - Bahai Blaca is a mission of mostly small towns - no good healthcare systems or networks - there is a mission doctor who we spoke with a few times and was a nice guy and generally helpful.

Some of the places he lived in were atrocious - Even when he was really into the missionary work - before his disaffection - he called the mission office and demanded certain basic needs and hygene standards for their "apartment" if you could call it that.

Oh my god. Was your son's mission some time ago or recent enough that the conditions are still the same?

This is very worrying! I have some friends ( now missionaries in Africa as senior missionaries) whose daughter is about to be posted there! I hope conditions are better.
* re rabies, I hope that is an issue that is properly adressed for missionaries in third and fourth world areas, as there are still people who are dying of it regularly...evidently no good treatments available?

Also, never thought I'd feel this way as I'm not the Catholic church's biggest fan, but I'm kind of glad now that the new pope is Argentinian AND appears to be gaining popularity at least with younger Catholics due to his recent statements about gays and also his apparent passion for tackling poverty, etc. Earlier I googled that area and found out that the Salesian missionaries are there -- Catholic missionaries. So in a way, I'm hoping that stepson has to look at the reality on the ground of missionaries who actually help the poor in a real way versus "help" to get baptized & fleeced out of 10% of your income.

Oh, the Salesians, they are a decent bunch and walk the talk.This should be an education for him in ways he does not expect, who knows, he may convert and become a Catholic missionary!

She is entering the MTC in September. That's amazing to find 3 missionaries going there through the board. From reading articles and blog that a female missionary kept online, I am very concerned about my niece's immune system as she had to postpone going because she got very sick after her wisdom teeth were removed. I don't trust that the powers that be will really be guardians for her health. In my texts/emails to her I stress for her to remember that she is a volunteer. I will see her just before she leaves and have her create an alarm word for me if she wants to come home but afraid of how her parents would feel, let alone the Mission President. I will tell her that if they won't fly her home that I will. She may not take me up on it but the offer will be there.

Very kind of you moira and something all should do with a loved one going on a mission to a not so great place or actually anyplace.

Ah good, I thought so; they appear to be pretty solid as far as old school missionaries go, according to the wiki on them.

LOL! Now THAT would leave his dad speechless!

ETA: becoming a Catholic missionary, that is!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2013 01:56AM by myantonia.

At the very least, you can now direct him to people who can help him out if something does happen. Catholic missionaries in south America are very helpful.
A family friend went to Argentina on bis mission, and every time he got sick, he went to the nearest cathedral to ask for help, because he sure wasn't going to get it from his MP, who was fond of saying that illness was caused by doubt.
Also, be sure to send him off with a phone card that you can charge up online, so he can call you guys anytime, from anywhere.

Moira, very kind. Glad she has you.
Maybe you can slip her some immune boosting supplements and vitamins somehow before she departs or while she is down there.Some of these poor kids have no idea at all what they are walking into , do they!

And that is true in both the US and foreign missions. About one and a half percent of the people who die from all causes in the US each day die in a traffic accident.

So do you spend your time agonizing about whether to drive to the grocery store?

Argentina is not particularly dangerous. I know traffic is the biggest danger for missionaries. I suspect the psychological trauma of leading a ridiculously controlled life trying to sell the scam that is Mormonism to the locals is the second biggest danger. Maybe even the biggest danger, but rarely fatal.

Good morning & thanks for the insight, Brother of Jerry. Hope you're right & I agree with you about traffic. In fact, I have a pretty severe traffic phobia that I've struggled with off and on for most of my life -- have to avoid busy intersections because I either freeze up at the wheel or over-correct. As far as the pushing the scam goes, part of me is afraid that my step-son knows deep down that it's a load of crap but he gets too much ego gratification from it all. As in soon after the Mormons came into his life, his most negative personality aspects became more pronounced. For example, he had a huge problem cleaning up after himself when we first got full custody of him & his little brother & sister because his mom always picked up after him -- *always* and would do everything for him (she was a SAHM). He seriously thought that it was just fine to leave his dirty dishes often with mostly uneaten food on the floor & just assumed someone would pick it up for him; I first tried to drive the point to him and to his siblings (who also had this cleanliness & hygiene issue but to far lesser degree) by ignoring the plates but soon they were rotting & a health hazard & had to ground him etc. The first time he cried & was very angry -- as if I had insulted him personally or something, so he started playing hooky/going missing for so many times and so often I think to "punish" us & especially his dad I think for laying ground rules & expecting him to complete chores which were all simply cleaning up after himself. It got so bad that 3 times that year he disappeared supposedly staying at a good friends' house 2 to 3 days straight until I finally convinced his dad to call the police, to call him in as a missing child. The police found him at the house of aunt -- his mom's sister -- where his mom was dropping in off & on. Anyway, back to the point -- he was sort scared straight by the cop -- also by then a school truancy officer had visited because he'd been pretending only to show up for school. GOD there's so much, sorry for the detour from my point -- which was what? That things got a lot worse because, though he was read the riot act by us & we even called the "elders" to let them know of his plummeting grades & truancy so they could put the pressure on him to straighten up -- they did as that at least for school because turns out he had them fooled too that he was still on the honor roll & they were even talking about him trying to get into BYU. Anyway, the next year was worse because by then the scout leader & later quorum president took it upon himself to advise him about how my step son could get around doing "women's work" while at the same time this douche bag kept feigning concern to his dad & to me the couple of times we called him asking to help us with convincing stepson to pull his weight around the house -- a.k.a clean up after himself, do his assigned chores just like his brother & sister were. OK, gone waay off now, anyway that's not even the worst crap about all this, sorry, I tend to not stay on topic when I'm upset & memories of this still upset me so much. So I guess my point is that I'm afraid stepson has since then been modeling his behavior on these fake, misogynist men that "rescued" him from Satan's grasp/the awful life he was exposed to thanks to his mother getting hooked on meth to please her new boyfriend at the ripe old age of 45 :(



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2013 11:40AM by myantonia.

My dog is vaccinated against rabies, as are humans who study bats up close. Hopefully parents can find a way to protect their kids if the church won't.

but I'll put in a plug for runtu's book--"Heaven Up Here" that can be found on Amazon. It is about his mission in Bolivia--and is not biased pro or con to the mormon church. It might give up some insight into the area and culture where your step-son is going.

Not really.

It would be like buying a book on Mexico to prepare for a mission to Montana. Sure there are some Mexican-americans in Montana, just like I ran across a few Bolivians in Argentina, but Bolivian culture is not Argentine culture, not remotely. Argentine culture is closer to Italian or Spanish culture than Bolivian.

Disagree - while the Bolivian culture is different than the Argentine culture which is different than the Mexican culture which is different than Spain, Runtu's book is an excellent insight into the culture of missionary life. I went to Spain and could profoundly relate to what Runtu wrote. And Spain is even more different culturally than Argentina is, when compared to Bolivia. The book is about the challenges of being a missionary and is a good read for any parent/step-parent who wants to know what their kid is getting themselves into emotionally, mentally and physically.

Sorry I was not more clear: "It might give up some insight into the area and culture where your step-son is going."

That was my disagreement with the original post. The OP did not mention insight into being a missionary in general, and if they had, I would not have disagreed with that.

Although as it relates to the horrors of living in Bolivia, I certainly would. We were specifically advised to NOT brag about how great we had it in Argentina, with our maids and our cooks and all the great food, to other missionaries in other parts of the world. I hated lots of things on my mission but the Argentine culture and lifestyle was never on that list. I also had free medical care and an MP who would help me get it, not try and hide the illnesses his missionaries had.

From the CDC:

Although rabies can be found in dogs, bats, and other mammals in Argentina, it is not a major risk to most travelers. CDC recommends this vaccine only for these groups:
Travelers involved in outdoor and other activities in remote areas that put them at risk for animal bites (such as adventure travel and caving).
People who will be working with or around animals (such as veterinarians, wildlife professionals, and researchers).
People who are taking long trips or moving to remote areas in Argentina
Children, because they tend to play with animals, might not report bites, and are more likely to have animal bites on their head and neck.

Missionary safety info:

"Danger can come in almost any country. Colombia had the most missionary deaths reported, 25. Numbers in other countries included: India, 15; Congo, 12; Uganda, 11; the United States, 10; Kenya, 6; Brazil and Iraq, 5 each; Argentina, Burundi, Guatemala, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea and South Africa, 4; and 43 other countries had at least one death." (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635174007/Missionary-slayings-very-rare-in-LDS-Church.html?pg=all)

Here is info on LDS missionaries killed on missions:


LDS Missionary Deaths from 1999-2006

Matthew Turley of Ridgefield, Connecticut, was hit by a drunk driver and killed on April 23, 2006. He was serving in the Mendoza, Argentina mission, in the city of San Luis.

Matthew Turley's companion, Elder Tyler Watts, of West Valley City was also injured and hit by the drunk driver, but is expected to make a full recovery and yes, FINISH his mission of course. He has around 5 months to go.

Bradley Isle New Zealand 1/5/2006 Auto accident Accident

Jonathan Talmadge New Zealand 1/5/2006 Auto accident Accident

Morgan W. Young U.S./Virginia 1/2/2006 Shot Witnessed crime, gunman shot him

Benjamin Ellsworth Argentina 12/5/2005 Train accident Fell under train

Joel Galindo Flores Mexico 11/9/2005 Hit by car Accident

Michael Joshua Bent Samoa 11/23/2003 Drowning Accident

Nathan Scott Godfrey Argentina 3/10/2003 Electrocuted Accident, trying to save another

Lym Kelly U.S. 10/18/2002 Auto accident Accident

Johnson Gregory Scott Mexico 9/29/2002 Electrocuted Accident

Atchley Adele Ivory Coast 8/3/2002 Murder Robbery

Leaunae Limuula Samoa 1/30/2002 Auto accident Accident

Platt Spencer U.S. 12/17/2001 Auto accident Accident

Thomas Jonathan Reed Argentina 8/29/2001 Hit by train Accident

Gleason Mark England 6/12/2001Auto accident Accident

Teodorescu Mihai England 6/12/2001 Auto accident Accident

Pixton Clark Henry Ukraine 7/14/2001 Fall Accident

Driggs Eric Robert Argentina 4/6/2000 Auto accident Accident

Christiansen Jaysen Ray U.S. 1/28/2000 Auto accident Accident

Pulham Jared Mont U.S. 1/28/2000 Auto accident Accident

Roundy Daniel Byrne U.S. 1/28/2000 Auto accident Accident

Savage Bradley Alan U.S. 1/28/2000 Auto accident Accident

Peterson Melissa U.S. 1/21/2000Auto accident Accident

Barrett Jonathan Philip Ivory Coast 4/24/1999 Stabbed Attacked by drunken man Papenfuss Jaarl Michael Canary Islands 1/18/1999

Prymak Joshua Matthew Canary Islands 1/18/1999 Drowning Accident


***


Unfortunately, we have far less information on deaths than on near-deaths, and mental and physical disabilities which have resulted from abuse, poor living conditions and failure to provide medical treatment to missionaries.

Also clouding the picture are the many lawsuits that the Mormon church settles for a big wad of cash and a promise not to reveal the settlement details. Many families fail to sue because of their loyalty and accept instead the church's offer to pay the doctor bills.

It's easy to hide abuse when you have a bulging wallet. Money doesn't buy justice in America, but it sure buys silence.

There is more information on this site, including more Argentinian deaths and disabilities, including the author's personal experience with parasites in the water/food, which they were told by the Mission home was perfectly safe to drink.

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2006/01/mormon-missionary-memoriam-those-who.html

A few years ago we had a returned missionary speaker from Argentina who showed us where his big toe had been grafted onto his hand when his thumb had been cut off in a train accident. The whole story of the "unfortunate accident" is an expose of Mormon neglect of missionary health and safety--the underlying cause of deaths and disability in the mission field.

He told us of a young man with a serious mental condition who was his companion. He saw him deteriorating and reported to the MP that this guy needed to go home and get treatment. This information was ignored and the missionary was transferred. A year later the speaker was asked to escort a missionary to the train station. He was being sent home for mental health treatment. The speaker was pleased at first, thinking that the MP was now allowing people's minds to be saved by sending them home when they exhibited well-known mental health symptoms like delusions and hallucinations.

He was shocked to see the same companion he had reported a year ago FINALLY FINALLY being sent home. Literally a gibbering mess, however. He seemed out of it, but could walk, so off they went. Unfortunately, he was a danger to others and pushed the speaker off the train platform directly into the path of a speeding train. By some miracle, the speaker was able to cling to the walls and lost only his thumb and suffered minor cuts and bruises.

If I could not keep a missionary from going, I would definitely send them with plenty of water purification tablets, antibiotics and instructions to locate medical help for themselves and make arrangements for a secret bank account/ATM card with funds for food supplementation, medical care, and a plane ticket home if needed.

Bank of America is everywhere in Argentina. I was able to send my daughter money by transferring money into her account from my account and she was able to withdraw that money in Patagonia without having the bankcard, just with her identification and account number.

Best of luck

Anagrammy

Wow, thank you for this information, Anagrammy. I'll be checking that link.

What I find interesting is the lack of concern about things like weight loss etc. I have a friend with a daughter returning this month from the Peace Corps. The daughter dropped 30 lbs while on her "mission". The Peace Corps has twice sent her for medical testing to make sure the weight loss was appropriate. It was, she probably could drop another 30 before it would be an issue.

But the point is, they noticed and they cared. They send every volunteer through a rigorus physical at the end of service to ensure they are not bringing home any nasty thing that will impact them for life.

I was in bahia blanca 1959 It was very nice then. It is now 50 years later. I dont know

Thanks, desertrat1 & all that have given so much information & input. Good night for now :)