Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: StoneInHat ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 02:00AM

I'm reading "The Changing World of Mormonism" by Jerald and Sandra Tanner and it reads like Mormon history. Someone not knowing better would think it was a book on church history until they get to the little zingers about changes in official LDS books.
The book that really got me questioning was "The History of Joseph Smith by His Mother" One story in particular was of Joseph Sr. having a dream that was very similar to Lehi's dream. I stopped and thought, "hold on, hold on, this shit is made up."
Maybe I could get MIL to read that, but I doubt she would think quite as critically as I do. She's a brainwashed TBM. Maybe I could photocopy a select page of the Tanner's book, remove the header containing the title, and leave it laying somewhere for her to find.
She recently accused me of reading anti-Mormon literature. I didn't think to tell her at the time, "If Lucy Mack Smith's book is anti-Mormon literature, then I guess I'm guilty as charged."
Argh! I really shouldn't let this bother me. I just need to let it go. I can't control other people, I can only control myself. ARGH!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lost in Time ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 02:52AM

Tanners books are hard to read even as a pure history book.
Mother Smith's book is a better read, she would be familiar with the cast and plot as well.
If she considers it anti-mormon show her in the introduction it was edited by both George A. Smith and Joseph F. Smith.

There are other books relating the lives of pioneer women. Get her interested in church history.

Once you have that common bond you can talk/show her your concerns.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Huh? ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 01:29PM

>Tanners books are hard to read even as a pure history book.

Wow, I completely disagree with that. The Tanner's books are often easier to read than most of the historians writing on the subject. Their writing is straight forward and contains tons of quotes that give you the actual context.

I've had a lot more difficulty wading through Quinn than anything the Tanner's have written.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: The 1st FreeAtLast ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 03:27AM

Most Mormons won't argue with info. in LDS Church periodicals and on the organization's websites. With that fact in mind, you could ask your MIL if she believes that JS used his hat and a brown rock shaped like an egg to "translate" the BoM. Her response would probably be an empathic "No!" Then show her the following quote in an article by LDS apostle Russell Nelson in his article about the BoM published in the July 1993 Ensign:

“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.”

(Ref. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng)

And from The Friend magazine (Sept. 1974) for children in LDS families:

"Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone. The translating was done at Peter Whitmer’s home, a friend of the Prophet’s where Oliver Cowdery, Emma Smith (Joseph’s wife), one of the Whitmers, or Martin Harris wrote down the words spoken by the Prophet as soon as they were made known to him.

"Martin Harris said that on the seer stone 'sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by [the one writing them down] and when finished [that person] would say "written"; and if correctly written, the sentence would disappear and another take its place; but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the [BoM gold] plates.'

(Ref. http://www.lds.org/friend/1974/09/a-peaceful-heart?lang=eng)

The LDS Church's genealogy website reveals details about JS' plural marriages:

- To teenage servant girl (in the Smith home) Fanny Alger: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SP82-WTV (More info. about Fanny is online at http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm).

- To several females (teenagers to middle-aged women, including other men's wives): https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/99P4-SHN (The full list of JS' known wives is online at http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/).

However, the supposedly 'true' BoM decried polygamy, while JS' "revelation" about polygamy in July 1843 that became Section 132 of the D&C contradicted the BoM (see http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,969870,969986#msg-969986 for details).

You may find that after showing your MIL these 'faith'-disrupting facts, she ignores or trivializes them. You cannot make her mentally wake up and acknowledge the evidence that proves that Mormonism is a fraud. She has to want to learn the full truth herself and if she doesn't, don't lose any sleep over it. Life is too short!

Good luck!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Ex-Cultmember ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 12:17PM

That book is in downloadable PDF format on the Tanners' website so you could just copy n paste it into Word, delete any titles or authors of the book, print it off and wallah! Its no longer an anti-Mormon book! Its just a bunch of early LDS sources.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: darksided ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 12:25PM

+1

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 01:36PM

My answer: carefully! Maybe ask: Have you read ....?
Just guessing here, but I have heard people completely turn off to the Tanners and others coming from outside the Mormon world of publishing. This may be difficult for a true believer as it requires that the reader ignore tone and bias to get to the meat, which is now often flavored and not very tasty.

With a TBM, I prefer to take it very slow;be civil, show my inner peace and happiness (without their gospel). Then, let them ask. When they are ready to ask, I would suggest something, depending on what I find out about their concerns. And use an LDS writer if at all possible.
If it's polygamy, I would suggest reading...(VERY SLOWLY ONE STORY AT A TIME) "In Sacred Loneliness, the Plural Wives of Joseph Smith" by Tod M Compton. He is an LDS writer.

That is probably the most powerful book for women members.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2013 01:43PM by SusieQ#1.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jebus ( )
Date: August 08, 2013 02:36PM

She is unlikely to read anything so blatantly "anti" as Tanners. The older folks in the Church have been very effectively brainwashed to stay away from anything labeled anti.

I try to get the uninitiated to read "studies on the Book of Mormom" by BH Roberts. Roberts is known to most of the faithful who know much at all.

Fair and Farms are also great in many ways. She might read something you gave her from them which could lead to more reading and discussion. The Book of Abraham stuff has to be some of the most pathetic and intellectually dishonest stuff to come out of them.

Rough stone rolling is also a good start.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **  ********  **        **     **   ******  
 **   **      **     **        **     **  **    ** 
 **  **       **     **        **     **  **       
 *****        **     **        *********  **       
 **  **       **     **        **     **  **       
 **   **      **     **        **     **  **    ** 
 **    **     **     ********  **     **   ******