Riverman's post about past prophets' racist comments got me thinking about this: If the flood was worldwide and only Noah's family was saved, how come there are black people? Shouldn't they have all been destroyed by the flood?

Now that I think of it, this really should apply to all races, but I'd still like to hear any explanations that might exist for this one.

There is only one explanation that best fits all available information.

A global flood did not happen...

This story is detailed in the BOA and is one of the reasons that, contra lies from mopologists, the BOA is a critical part of Mormon doctrine.

According to BOA, one of Noah's sons, Ham, married a black woman and he had a daughter with the anachronistic name Egyptus (sounds more Latin than anything else) and she discovered Egypt. Thus, it was named after her. It is also why black people live in Africa.

God wanted to preserve the "curse of Cain" (i.e. black skin and no priesthood for less valiant people in the pre-existence) so this is why he wanted to have Ham's wife on the boat.

Unfortunately for Mormons, the ancient Egyptians called their country Kemet and it had nothing to do with some made up black woman who was Noah's daughter-in-law.

Egypt was a named given to the place by the Greeks.

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Abraham 1:21-24,27
"Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth. From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land."

"The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden; When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land."

"Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 06:30PM by Beavis Christ.

Aah, of course: the black daughter-in-law. I think I have heard that before, but had since forgotten.

I wonder if any explanations exist for any other races?

Not that I am aware of. Early Mormons never were in contact with anyone other than Euros, Africans, and Amerindians so they didn't try to come up with any myths about the other races.

Most generally relied on the traditional xian speculation that the races were:

White: Japeth
Black: Ham
Asian: Shem

As far as I can recall, this is one area where the all-purpose mopologist "not doctrinal" may actually have some truth.

For Beavis Christ

How about Black Jaradites? It comes from the Kinderhook Plates.

"I have translated a portion of them and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth." History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 372

Apologists need to be squished with this one. They say that the Kinderhook plates have been "settled once and for all as a forgery by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=2&num=1&id=47

But look at this BofM tour:
http://www.mygazines.com/issue/678/11

(click on the left side above the footnotes)

"the map that Joseph Smith drew of Moroni's travel..."

If you look at that map of Moroni's travels, it shows the Kinderhook plates!

http://www.byui.edu/onlinelearning/courses/hum/121/Moroni_More.htm

Black Jaradites, apologists saying the translation never happened, the church says the plates are a hoax, but LDS use a Joseph Smith map as a promotion to make money on tours. A map that includes the Kinderhook plates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 07:40PM by Hoggle.

I had never seen that map before. Thanks for the info.

That is an interesting page.

But considering those maps are not the product of any official church mechanism, I think mopologists would be correct to state they are not doctrinal.

It does at least attempt to explain how on earth the events of the BOM could have taken place in Central America and then the actual plates end up in New York.

Unfortunately, if Moroni was taking the cartloads of plates that Brigham Young assures us were inside Cumorah, there's no way he could possibly have outrun the genocidally minded Lamanites.

Thanks. The maps are kept in the LDS archives. They are not doctrinal or canonized, but they are historic manuscripts of the church.

What gets me is how apologists can talk through two mouths at the same time. First they say the Kinderhook plates are fake, then they make claims about a map that includes this artifact fraud.

Its amazing how sloppy things get when money is to be made with tours. I guess anything goes, even artifact frauds that the church exposed in 1981.

http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=b6a8aeca0ea6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

white: Shem

Asian: Japeth

And thanks for the quotes!

Beavis nearly got it right :::

White --Shem
Black --Ham's wife
Oriental --Japeth

JB

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah

The way I heard it was that white people came from Shem, because he was one of the Three Stooges whenever Curly was gone. Black people came from Ham, because the blacks like pork barbeques. And Japeth was a Jap, definitely Asian.

And Mormons came from jellyfish, creatures without brains.

I don't have the exact quote or reference right now, but one of the GAs said in a talk back in the day that Noah's son had to take a black wife so that Satan could continue to have a representative on earth. I'm at work, can't look it up. Maybe someone on the board has a link.

I was given a copy of a talk from my mcc teacher, as was the rest of my district, by Alvin R Dyer called "For what purpose?" it was incredibly inspiring to me as a missionary and it was nice to finally get some big picture facts about stuff from an apostle? in the church that is not normally discussed.

Anyway, it breaks down the whole curse of cain, japeth and shem thing really really well. I think he said Gentiles all come from japeth and chosen people through shem, but we can belong to the lineage of shem or house of israel we are baptized.

I would give my left nut for a copy of this talk now. eventually a half black elder in my mission read a copy of this as it circulated around the mission and was seriously disturbed. our president forbid us to read it anymore. I remember being very disappointed, thinking "for what purpose?" It's true, right?

Thanks! Once again, 1 has to go to the anti mormon sites to find the church's teachings.

The story of Noah is in the Bible. The Book of Abraham or BoM or whatever are just copies. According to the Bible, Genesis 10:1 and following Noah had three sons - Sem, Kam and Jafet. The Bible gives a list of their descendants, that is actually a list of names of peoples in and around Palestine in ancient times.

There is nothing in the Bible about any black daughter-in-law. There is nothing about where the sons got their wives.

The idea that black skin is the mark of Cain is nonsense.

If we take a fundamentalist view of that part of the Bible it doesn't make sense.

Maybe that race swims very well.

The amount of water on earth is limited. What is here, is here. Period. Science is pretty much in agreement about that right?..

Sooo... with this flood thing... the question arises: Where did all that extra water come from?
The story says that it rained (a lot!)
It doesn't mention ice caps melting or anything...

So:
Where did all that water come from?

and

Where did it go afterwards?

Environmentalists now predict that if the ice caps melt sea levels will rise several meters and will flood lower lands... but not ALL of the earth!..

And shouldn't there be evidence all over earth that the water levels were that high?

Even more bizarre, there were 8 people saved during this flood that took place less than 6,000 years ago.

So those eight people were enough to populate the earth with all it's racial diversity within that time frame.

Doh!

remember that jesus freaks point out fragments of seashells in rocks at the top of the Alps as proof of a global flood. Plate tectonics, like the big bang, are just gawdless lies spread by satan and his ignorant henchmen, scientists.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 11:17AM by truthseeker.

This blows away the stereotype that black people can't swim.

Hah ha. Bob T. That is hilarious. You know they didn't allow a brother on that boat!

Black people swam to the flooded land of Egyptus. Damn the white spirit, they said, he gypped us.