Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
A long time ago I sat behind a desk for my church calling. As people told me their problems, I would begin to write a script in my mind as to how I (on behalf of god) was going to respond.
I realized later that I was not inspired. I was simply concocting a string of scriptures, GA quotes, articles, analogies and personal opinion that would satisfy and awe the person in front of me.
Another thing I realized was that I could pick any position and prove it, explain it and teach it. See, the mormon church has a system in which they try to cover all of their bases, all of the time. Their doctrine is as amorphous as Holland's chin.
I could have couples tell me the exact same problem. But if I could spin it to be their fault, their spouses fault, a blessing, a simple trial. This is how the church leadership operates.
For example, they can say be officially silent about DNA. At the same time they publish papers discrediting the findings, muddling the water. At the same time they silently change the introduction of the BOM.
They can teach racism and say that its a doctrine that is now past. They can also say that it was taught, but only as personal opinion, while at the same time they can say that they never taught it.
They do this with every controversial topic...polygamy, women's rights, prophets, unfulfilled prophesy... They teach the leaders how to do it.
This practice is actually a doctrine from the BOM.
Sariah is upset that her kids are back in Jerusalem and are now running late. She fear the worse and goes to her husband. Lehi does some important things, which are basic in mormon conflict resolution:
Agree in part, make false promises, and focus on feelings of empathy and sympathy to convince people that all problems are temporary and god is in charge and therefore leader is not really responsible. If the kids come back, it's evidence that I am inspired, so don't question me. If they are killed it was a punishment for your lack of faith, but either way, I am right and in charge.
If you think about this for 10 minutes, you will realize that this was Joe Smith's MO.
Sometimes, we get frustrated when we catch them in a lie and we want to run and tell everyone about it , people don't get it, in fight they fight it. Because we ASSUME that they will fess up, realize and agree based on honest analysis. But what we sometimes forget is that they have filled the members heads with so many vague ideas and doctrines that logic no longer matters. The member can simply be controlled with their own memories, fear, insights and feelings.
So next time you want to post about how can they do this? or why don't people understand that? Or should I tell my husband that I found proof that it isn't true...
Remember, you are dealing with people who have been brained washed, and more importantly you are dealing with an insidious organization that does not play on the same playground of ethics, morals, logic or honesty that we understand to be part of the rules of society.
I realized later that I was not inspired. I was simply concocting a string of scriptures, GA quotes, articles, analogies and personal opinion that would satisfy and awe the person in front of me.
Another thing I realized was that I could pick any position and prove it, explain it and teach it. See, the mormon church has a system in which they try to cover all of their bases, all of the time. Their doctrine is as amorphous as Holland's chin.
I could have couples tell me the exact same problem. But if I could spin it to be their fault, their spouses fault, a blessing, a simple trial. This is how the church leadership operates.
For example, they can say be officially silent about DNA. At the same time they publish papers discrediting the findings, muddling the water. At the same time they silently change the introduction of the BOM.
They can teach racism and say that its a doctrine that is now past. They can also say that it was taught, but only as personal opinion, while at the same time they can say that they never taught it.
They do this with every controversial topic...polygamy, women's rights, prophets, unfulfilled prophesy... They teach the leaders how to do it.
This practice is actually a doctrine from the BOM.
Sariah is upset that her kids are back in Jerusalem and are now running late. She fear the worse and goes to her husband. Lehi does some important things, which are basic in mormon conflict resolution:
Agree in part, make false promises, and focus on feelings of empathy and sympathy to convince people that all problems are temporary and god is in charge and therefore leader is not really responsible. If the kids come back, it's evidence that I am inspired, so don't question me. If they are killed it was a punishment for your lack of faith, but either way, I am right and in charge.
If you think about this for 10 minutes, you will realize that this was Joe Smith's MO.
Sometimes, we get frustrated when we catch them in a lie and we want to run and tell everyone about it , people don't get it, in fight they fight it. Because we ASSUME that they will fess up, realize and agree based on honest analysis. But what we sometimes forget is that they have filled the members heads with so many vague ideas and doctrines that logic no longer matters. The member can simply be controlled with their own memories, fear, insights and feelings.
So next time you want to post about how can they do this? or why don't people understand that? Or should I tell my husband that I found proof that it isn't true...
Remember, you are dealing with people who have been brained washed, and more importantly you are dealing with an insidious organization that does not play on the same playground of ethics, morals, logic or honesty that we understand to be part of the rules of society.
"Another thing I realized was that I could pick any position and prove it, explain it and teach it. See, the mormon church has a system in which they try to cover all of their bases, all of the time. Their doctrine is as amorphous as Holland's chin."
So true! I hear this from Bishops, from members, and from talks.
So true! I hear this from Bishops, from members, and from talks.
Yup.... its the old....Gods ways are not our ways....argument. it can be used against anything to shut down the thought process.
I think this OP's post is so important.
It's why it's so difficult to be an ex-mormon, never having learned an honest approach to truth, morality, ethics, any of it. First, the ex-mormon thinks things are the same everywhere so can't trust any system or authority. And, second, how do you put together a system from scratch? What do you keep and what do you throw out?
I'm associated with a field that melds technology and science with the need to raise a large amount of capital. There are companies that are serious about getting the result, which requires a focus on the science. Then there are companies serious about raising and blowing through lots of money. If you've only worked in the high-flyers, and only learned the symbols of success from those companies, you can become extremely disgusted at the level of theft and leave the company, never understanding how other companies actually get the job done. You think all companies are designed solely to steal from investors.
It's why it's so difficult to be an ex-mormon, never having learned an honest approach to truth, morality, ethics, any of it. First, the ex-mormon thinks things are the same everywhere so can't trust any system or authority. And, second, how do you put together a system from scratch? What do you keep and what do you throw out?
I'm associated with a field that melds technology and science with the need to raise a large amount of capital. There are companies that are serious about getting the result, which requires a focus on the science. Then there are companies serious about raising and blowing through lots of money. If you've only worked in the high-flyers, and only learned the symbols of success from those companies, you can become extremely disgusted at the level of theft and leave the company, never understanding how other companies actually get the job done. You think all companies are designed solely to steal from investors.
It really becomes like arguing with Abbott and Costello.
The MORG as you alluded, only exists to take make money. The service they provide, the publicity they seek, they missionary efforts, even the temples are all part of the rouse to get money.
They talk out of both side of their mouth and tell you whatever you want to hear as long as the money keeps rolling in.
Members will continue to believe while they bleed the thinkers out. I have had members tell me that if Jesus Christ himself told them that the church was not true, they still would not leave, such is the "strength" of their "testimony".
The MORG as you alluded, only exists to take make money. The service they provide, the publicity they seek, they missionary efforts, even the temples are all part of the rouse to get money.
They talk out of both side of their mouth and tell you whatever you want to hear as long as the money keeps rolling in.
Members will continue to believe while they bleed the thinkers out. I have had members tell me that if Jesus Christ himself told them that the church was not true, they still would not leave, such is the "strength" of their "testimony".