This is a continuation from: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1017417,1017417#msg-1017417

First off, thank you all for your recommendations. I agree that at this piont the best thing is to show her that my feelings for her have not changed.

This is day 2 of the ordeal, but I fear where it may be going.

After coming out to her, I was hoping to toss my garments in the trash, begin a first draft of a resignation letter, and prepare an email to inform my family of my change. I came home to an unexpectedly warm greeting from her. She told me that she made some calls and bought a book and outlined a plan to "fix" my unbelief. The book she bought was from FAIRS, and was called "Shaken Faith Syndrome". I told her that I was more than willing to read it, but cannot guarantee that it will do anything for me. She then proceeded to lay out some guidlines:

1. I am to make an appointment with the Bishop. This seems reasonable as I should probably ask to be released from the calling I was just given.

2. I am to read the book she bought and email any questions I have to her friend who works for FAIRS and who she reveres as one of the smartest people she knows.

3. I am no longer to visit RFM or Mormonthink because they detract from the overall message of the church.

Apparently Im only allowed to look at one side of the argument. Furthermore, I can only research materials that are approved by TSCC and therefore "biased". I tried to explain this to her, but she wouldnt have any of it.

I recommended that we see a marriage counselor and she didnt seem very keen on the idea.

Apparently Im only worth her time if Im active and willing to accept fabrications as truths in my life.

I lost track of how many times I told her that I loved her yesterday, but she seems unwilling to accept me with my newfound attitude towards the church.

I dont know what to do!

PS: Also, she had a "spiritual experience" yesterday where her friend posted this book on facebook without her even telling her anything. Also, there was a 20% off coupon in the mailbox to Deseret Book, something she never gets.

Some clarification on my situation: No kids, and we have been married less than a year. Though prior to me opening up to her about my beliefs, she was REALLY pushing for us to start trying for children. My views on kids have unfortunately changed since we got married and Im not sure I want to have kids, and if I did choose to become a parent, I wouldnt want to raise them in the narrow minded LDS environment.

Also, I have not agreed to anything other than reading her book. I am a grown ass man and capable of making my own decisions and not prone to allowing myself to be bossed around by someone making unrealistic demands.

@SusieQ#1 I think your advice is wonderful! However, it sounds like she wants this resolved ASAP and that just wont happen. I would love to take a break and just let things calm down a bit, but I dont think she will let it.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 07:22PM by pathist.

...how come SHE gets to make all the demands? That's not fair.

Because *she* will get half his money and custody of the kids in a divorce, generally speaking. In this situation *he* had everything to lose.

Generally speaking, parents share custody.

Your experience may vary if you live in a theocracy though.

Yeah, she has to compromise, and she has to understand that one of the biggest issues is the one-sided thing. If I were you, I'd say that I'd be more than happy to comply with #1 and #2, but #3 constitutes a lack of intellectual integrity and I wouldn't be able to live with that kind of dishonesty in my life.

You don't have to agree to all her demands......if you do she will take advantage..... just show her you are willing to compromise, but she doesn't get to call all the shots.

If you want, for every book she asks you to read, tell her you will, but you would like her to read one of yours also..... start out with, In Sacred Loneliness.

Tell her you'll read the book only if she reads the entire Mormon Think website.

She isn't the only one who can make demands.

I suggest that you drop the subject entirely and give it a rest.
She is into panic mode with her fix-it demands.
This is no time to make any ultimatums, or demands.

It's just possible that if you back way off, never mention a thing for a few months, decline to play her games and demands she will be able to adjust.

Tell her you need a Time Out. Time to think.
There is no need for her to have any expectation that she can Fix IT by her demands.

Tell her you prayed about it, (that is language she understands) and you and she need to focus on your relationship and come to an agreement that you both can live with but it will take time.


You may need to tell her she needs to live the 11th Article of Faith, and sit with it for awhile.

The Articles of Faith - #11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 02:36PM by SusieQ#1.

I agree with this!

You have had months, maybe years, to sort through your conclusions. She has had no time at all. So take time.

I like this approach. Just make sure you make it clear you haven't agreed to any of her demands.

After a prolonged "rest period" she may mis-remember that you agreed to them and try to throw it in your face.

Then work out a compromise.

can you say control issues? Are you an adult or not? Are you allowed to make your own decisions in anything else or are you just told what you can and can't do? This does not set the stage for a healthy marriage and if she insists on going this route it will only breed resentment, distrust, and a host of other nasty emotions that in the end will be directed at her. Ask her if this is what she wants. She has to be able to compromise. I realize that the concept is foreign to most mormons but if the marriage is to survive in any way she needs to start learning how.

Giver her a specific reading list (all one sided, of course).

You comply when she does.

-- then you'll be safe, cause she ain't going there.

Well, you can't do this without compromise, and you'll have to explain this. All truth is found somewhere in the middle, and there will have to be compromise. For instance, one should not be kept off Mormonthing, etc., because the FAIR people say you have to. That does not allow one to look at the other side.

You must also inform her that many or even most of us here have left over LDS-published materia--the BoM, the Journal of Discourses, and especially the BoA. To insist that Mormonthink and RfM are all about so-called "anti-Mormon" teachings and materials is flatly wrong.

Perhaps you could also relate that many LDS leaders have had their doubts. LDS historian and General Authority B.H. Roberts had a lifetime of doubt. He was also alcoholic, but church members drank back then.

The church is a Swiss cheese of fundamental problems, and you will have to find a way to patiently point this out. She may come 'round yet, and I wouldn't give up hope. My own family has mellowed about it, and three of my kids are now out.

If I had it to do over I would not get into a battle with my wife or tried to convince her I was right.

Tell her you want a divorce, right now. That you are not a child and will not be dictated to. Either she accepts you as you are, and you do the same, or you are starting over now. And you want the kids on the weekends so they don't get brainwashed.

That will stop her in her tracks. Make her choose, a life with a husband who loves her and cherishes her or a life as a second class citizen in an institution that does not give one flying fuck what happens to her.

(This wording may be a little harsh).

I agree with SusieQ#1 that it may be best to back off a little and give it some time to sink in....but if this isn't an option and she's piling the pressure on you, perhaps ask openly where you stand - i.e is your marriage & relationship important enough to her that she would stand by you regardless of your religious beliefs/non-beliefs? Would she choose the church over you? Would she prefer to divorce you if you decided never to attend church again?

Tough questions, but at least you'll know where you stand.

Sounds like she talked to someone and they coached her on what to tell you. You may need to give her a little space and time to process and then you need to try to get through her shell and reconnect. Unfortunately at the end of the day if her marriage and connection to you was nothing more than you fulfilling a church role there may be much to fear.

However, don't panic yet. I know of many couples who have successfully navigating things and worked through them despite very, very rocky starts when it was first disclosed. She is reeling, try not to get to upset, hurt or offended while she is working through the initial shock.

She's treating you like you're being a naughty child. She's your wife, not your mother.

You may have minded your mother, but your wife has no business trying to force you to mind her. Compromise is the only solution IMO.

Be patient. She obviously has no idea that a good Mormon still has the capability to learn. There's a LOT to learn about the Mormon church that they don't tell you. In fact, they flat out lie about tons of things.

Monson himself doesn't seem to want to talk about Joseph Smith. He never shares a testimony of him or the BoM. Why? Maybe your wife know the answer?

Can you call a truce? Say, for a week, this subject is off-limits. Give it a a little time to settle in. Maybe taking the edge off will let her feel more comfortable with talking things out and having a conversation.

I may have found an opening myself. My wife IMed me that she got a coupon for Deseret book, so I asked her to pick up a copy of Rough Stone Rolling. She did so, so now I have a book she can read without suspicion (she'll trust Deseret Book), but which will plant seeds.

Be prepared for a church orchestrated divorce with the bishop and SP being choreographers .

Leaving the church isn't for wimps. I'm in a similar situation with my husband. It's rough.

Like you, I thought once I told my husband I could just move forward very quickly and ditch the church altogether. My husband seemed pretty supportive until I started taking steps to disassociate myself with the church. His support all of the sudden wasn't there anymore.

I'm finding that to keep the peace, my exit needs to move at a snail's pace. I think I need to give him time to get used to every step I take before I take the next step. No sudden movements. For example, I quit wearing my garments, but I did it slowly over a period of a couple of months. I'd wear them for a couple of days and then not wear them for a day and then wear them for a day and then not wear them for two days etc.

I've come to the realization that even though I want to completely rid myself of the church, it probably isn't going to be possible if I want to stay married. Right now, I'm thinking of working out an agreement where I attend only sacrament meeting with the family.

May I make a suggestion? Do you think you could get your wife to agree to keep your doubts about the church between just the two of you? The way she seems to be acting, I think this whole thing could get out of hand very quickly if she starts talking to family or church members about you. This is your journey out of the church and you need to have a say in how it all happens.

Wishing luck to us both!

I think the clarification of your post changes things. It might be time to just cut your losses and separate.

Bro Susie q speaks wisdom.

Put your ego aside and preserve your marriage.

She is giving you what you want.

Her fair friend wont be able to answer the questions

Just take it slower.

Ask her if stay LDS. Com is ok.

This is a long journey.

Slow down.

1) Your wife is making unreasonable demands if she expects you not to read anything that's not "church approved." She doesn't have to read yours but she can't expect you to only read hers.

2) Going to the Bishop MIGHT be a good opportunity to air some of your reasons for no longer believing. If you can get your wife to attend this meeting you will have free reign to indirectly educate her on the issues without her shutting you down, as you are telling the Bishop. If you do this, make sure you have the issues down pat so that the Bishop doesn't make you look dumb in front of her. Have documentation from LDS sources, etc so that he can't just say what you are telling them is just anti-Mormon.

3) USING FAIR IS A GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!! They discuss and confirm nearly all the "anti-Mormon" information out there! I would selectively go through FAIR and find all the most damaging things out there and then print them off! Regular TBM's have no idea that the stuff is actually true and that FAIR confirms it. They think FAIR somehow debunks anti-Mormon sources. All they do is confirm the info and possibly offer some lame explanation.

Go ahead. Document the troubling aspects of Mormon history. Give them to your wife and show her what FAIR says about them. Then have her deliver these to her FAIR friend. It will be a great opportunity to educate her without her realizing it. She might realize how the stuff you learned is actually true and that LDS Inc and their apologists are the ones who are misrepresenting the truth. Make it a team effort. You and your wife will work together to get these issues "answered." Get her to "help" you.

When you email her FAIR friend, make sure to cc your wife. That way she might read about the problems and the lame excuses FAIR gives. Make sure you know what you are talking about though, that's its all documented, and that you know what the FAIR response will be.

Make sure to hit on a good variety of issues (polygamy, First Vision, Blood Atonement, BoM anachronisms, BoA translation, secret finances of the church, seer stone treasure hunting, masonic rip off of the endowment, etc)

Hopefully your wife will see that there ARE real problems and that its not just you blindly believing anti-Mormons or being over critical.

The good news is that "approved" church sources provide plenty of ammo internally because they are so contradictory. And of course FAIR is happy to mention outside-of-the-church sources when it looks for them, but is quick to ignore or dis' them if they don't paint a rosy picture.

But the simplest thing may be just to say "I don't believe it" and let her go off to church by herself. If she loves you, it'll work out. If she's drunk too much Kool-Aid, she's infected.

I'd get a lawyer and look at an annulment. Depends on where you live. I could not stand a lifetime of such restrictive control.

At the very least you would know your rights snd status if she threatens divorce.

Make sure no kids appear until things are resolved.

You aren't a child and this woman isn't your mother. She's your wife and you are an equal partner...though I must say that no kids, married less than a year clarifies a whole lot, in my book. Especially knowing what Hell it can be just having TBM family that guilt-trips an inactive spouse. Callous, but if she can't accept you or give you some time, I think you might consider parting ways. Also, to be fair to her, she signed up for a TBM man. If you can't be that guy, you might consider parting ways. Doesn't matter that FAIR is so darned weak and pathetic.

Do not impregnate your wife. Either don't have sex or use a back up birth control method such as condoms. You don't want another complication in your life. Birth control is a man's responsibility, too. Don't rely solely on her efforts. It's a lot easier to walk away from this relationship without kids in the mix.

You know, I went through exactly the same thing as you. Same process. Same reaction. They call it the Morg (ala Borg) for a reason. I tried to stick it out for three years. We probably should've divorced after a couple of months. I don't know what will happen with you, but you seem to be handling it better than I did.

Stay strong. Things are going to get worse, but they will get soooooooooooooo much better. Either in this relationship or not.

Here's an idea - try to get your wife to go with you to the bishop.

It may be your one chance for your wife to actually hear your concerns. She won't feel attacked. Try to make a really really strong case to the bishop of what the problems are with your wife really being the one who is the intended audience.

Unfortunately, Mormonism teaches people how to behave like children in every situation. There's also some kind of morality of the business deal in even family situations. Here's the agreement, here's the terms, who's in breach, who's not. None of it is helpful in an intimate relationship.

Try to remember she's never learned anything about dealing with people as adults outside of an authoritarian structure which tells everyone what to do. Her advisors--fellow Mo leaders--haven't either. And, well, frankly, neither have you. So, don't climb on your high horse. Yes, she's being unreasonable dictating to you what you may and may not do, think, and say. But it doesn't become reasonable just because you can demand she read "your" books too. The whole thing is stupid.

First, gain some confidence and believe in yourself. Mormonism is a losing proposition. She's afraid she'll lose her eternal blessings. Everything's at stake for her. She's brainwashed and terrified. Somehow, y

Accidently sent--meant you've got to build up her confidence. Have a sincere dialog with her. Help her understand that everything she's basing her life on is brittle and scary. She's got no control over her future unless she gains control over you. This "other-directed" focus destroys lives. Don't give in to unreasonable demands, but try to help her get past her brainwashing. Talk to her thoroughly about doctrine. She'll come to realize she doesn't believe anything. She's just afraid to quit and she's afraid for you to quit. It's all limbic brain.

"She then proceeded to lay out some guidlines:

1. I am to make an appointment with the Bishop. This seems reasonable as I should probably ask to be released from the calling I was just given.

2. I am to read the book she bought and email any questions I have to her friend who works for FAIRS and who she reveres as one of the smartest people she knows.

3. I am no longer to visit RFM or Mormonthink because they detract from the overall message of the church."


Wow...you really did marry your mother.......




It's your life to exercise as you see fit...and accpet the consequences as a result..


Good luck...If you abide by her "guidelines"...then give one to her...non religious/nonLDS marriage counseling....